scottshoemaker Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Only because I can't seem to collect enough toys, whats the viability of a list where the smallest model is a Tyranid Warrior? I like the Idea of lots of Carnifexes too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Might work. I feel like you need at least some little gribblies for screening/nuisance work. Doesn't have to be much, maybe a couple Broods of Gargoyles. But I think you'd want at least some little stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I'd say extremely viable. It would be a pretty low model count army, but you could field warriors, and then nothing but T6. Tyrant, Swarmlord, Old One Eye, Hive Guard, Haruspex, Exocrine, Tervigon, Carnifex, Trygon, Mawloc, Trygon Prime, Tyrannofex.... You can get long range S7 AP2 shooting, long range S10 shooting, smash attacks galore, S8 from the hive guard for some transport popping... Put wings on the Tyrants and you have a way to deal with flyers. The only thing that isn't viable is a true horde list. But you could potentially put together a list with 10+ MCs without batting an eye, and have plenty of tools to deal with a wide range of targets. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Nidzilla ends up being over 50% of the lists you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I actually wouldn't be surprised if Nidzilla ends up being over 50% of the lists you see. 9 carnifexes with fleet are only 1215... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I was looking, I think shrikes might be the best thing in the fast attack. The rest of the slot seems pretty bad, so why not use it for synapse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Cheapish wings for conversions: http://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=258 I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I was looking, I think shrikes might be the best thing in the fast attack. The rest of the slot seems pretty bad, so why not use it for synapse? Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I like maxmini super nice quality http://maxmini.eu/conversion-bits/wings-sets/big-wings-bits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 To the OP's question - I think Nidzilla is the Tyranids' last "special thing." Having lost any sort of real psychic threat, cheap expendable troops (thanks to IB's new bite or the Synapse "tax" to avoid it), or particularly strong melee options (no scytals really hurts), T6 and the ability to put MCs in nearly every Force Org slot is their thing now. With the discount on Tyrants and Carnifexen, models for Crones and Harpies, and addition of the Haruspex and Exocrine, you can put a lot out there. I was looking, I think shrikes might be the best thing in the fast attack. The rest of the slot seems pretty bad, so why not use it for synapse? From my experience, Shrikes bite @$$. The 5+ save makes them extremely expensive bolter-bait. Of course, my solution back in the day was to use Warriors in a pod instead (using the Pod to block LOS, and they were rocking a 4+ save which makes a HUGE difference in survivablity vs. small arms...). I have had a great deal of success with Raveners - they're beasts (meaning 12" movement, not slowed by difficult terrain), Fleet, rocking 4A each (3 + double weapons), can get Rending cheap, and can Deep Strike which has long been a part of my 6th ed Bug strategy. Considering the price to durablity/damage output, I find them point for point better than Genestealers. Many other folks swear by Gargoyles as well, and I imagine that will continue as we see more Flyrants out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I think the point of the shrikes was to keep 'em cheap at 90 pts for three and use them as cheap, mobile synapse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 This book it seems to be if your synapse dies, you loose. Shrikes and Warriors both are not good, but you will need that synapse to stay in the game. Gargs are now worse than Shrikes, The auto wound was what made gargs nice, now they are just a 5+ cover meat shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 There's enough out there with mediocre-poor Init that I think Gargoyles still have a role as a fast Tarpit along with the Screening. They're fast enough to catch up to, say, a Wraithknight or Riptide, and it'll take forever for one of those to kill all of them especially when it's spending every other Turn at WS1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Wait, you mean they seem to be pushing you towards big critters like back when the originally came out? Sign me up. Even go back to the cooler models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted January 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Low model count=more better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 From my experience, Shrikes bite @$$. The 5+ save makes them extremely expensive bolter-bait. Of course, my solution back in the day was to use Warriors in a pod instead (using the Pod to block LOS, and they were rocking a 4+ save which makes a HUGE difference in survivablity vs. small arms...). With escalation in normal games, there is a huge push for very tall, TLOS blocking terrain. Shrikes can surive if you insist on this tall terrain, which should be always insisted upon. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Lash Flyrant is pretty sweet, just hope you dont come up against a bloodthrister. Same amount of points, swings before the flyrant, 6 attacks, 3.6 hit, .57 chance of insta-death vs .27 chance with the Tyrant, and that is the flyrant getting the charge. I just dont see anything in the 'nid book that daemons don't do better. Maybe shooting, but daemons can take soul grinders, ally in oblits, forge fiends, havocs, heldrakes, and prescience them. Crap Daemons can ally in a Lemon Russ squad and a Vendetta squad. Daemonettes > Termagants, Seekers > Gargoyles, Bloodthrister > flyrant, all for the same point costs, and no synapse. Heavy support is the only bit that leaves daemons, but Princes and Soul Grinders are pretty dang good. This is pretty disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Lash Flyrant is pretty sweet, just hope you dont come up against a bloodthrister. Same amount of points, swings before the flyrant, 6 attacks, 3.6 hit, .57 chance of insta-death vs .27 chance with the Tyrant, and that is the flyrant getting the charge. I just dont see anything in the 'nid book that daemons don't do better. Maybe shooting, but daemons can take soul grinders, ally in oblits, forge fiends, havocs, heldrakes, and prescience them. Crap Daemons can ally in a Lemon Russ squad and a Vendetta squad. Daemonettes > Termagants, Seekers > Gargoyles, Bloodthrister > flyrant, all for the same point costs, and no synapse. Heavy support is the only bit that leaves daemons, but Princes and Soul Grinders are pretty dang good. This is pretty disappointing. Um, what? Seekers cost twice what Gargoyles do, and Daemonettes are more than twice the price of Termagants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 You can't compare terms to daemonettes. Terms have guns and more than 1/2, ill take 2 terms over a daemonettes. I would say horms are less than daemonettes as they can't threaten vehicles withou upgrades. I get your point but nids can do nidzilla better because it can put t6 in mass. daemons just do fmc better. Fmc is usually better than nidzilla t6 in mass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Um, what? Seekers cost twice what Gargoyles do, and Daemonettes are more than twice the price of Termagants. Seekers cost 2x Gargs but have 3x attacks with rending and higher init and 2 higher WS and are faster. Gargs should have another attack or something, its crap. As for t6 spam I run blobs of Nurgle bikes/spawn, trust me, t6 3+ doesnt mean much to Eldar/Tau/Inquisition. I just dont see nid zilla doing a lot. I do kind of like the idea of gaunt MSU. 6 15 gaunt squads. Make them waste shots to over kill those little squads. Without Iron arm and enfeeble, its going to be very hard. Also yeah, shoulda used horms, all the lists i've been making are terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Lash Flyrant is pretty sweet, just hope you dont come up against a bloodthrister. Same amount of points, swings before the flyrant, 6 attacks, 3.6 hit, .57 chance of insta-death vs .27 chance with the Tyrant, and that is the flyrant getting the charge. I just dont see anything in the 'nid book that daemons don't do better. Maybe shooting, but daemons can take soul grinders, ally in oblits, forge fiends, havocs, heldrakes, and prescience them. Crap Daemons can ally in a Lemon Russ squad and a Vendetta squad. Daemonettes > Termagants, Seekers > Gargoyles, Bloodthrister > flyrant, all for the same point costs, and no synapse. Heavy support is the only bit that leaves daemons, but Princes and Soul Grinders are pretty dang good. This is pretty disappointing. This has been my point all week. Daemons have effectively taken the slot the Nids once filled in the 40k army ecosystem. They're the great psykers now; strong, effective melee throughout; appropriately costed fast, Rending troops (Daemonettes); generally terrifying MCs (Greater Daemons, Princes); badass FMCs (princes, 'Thirster), and plenty of world-effecting stuff that adversely affects the enemy (Storm of Chaos). The only thing Bugs have really got is Nidzilla now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't believe I'm hearing this right, but Deamon Princes are awful. They're horribly overpriced with wings, and they're easy to take down with massed bolter fire. Did you even watch what happened to your teammate in the last game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't believe I'm hearing this right, but Deamon Princes are awful. They're horribly overpriced with wings, and they're easy to take down with massed bolter fire. Did you even watch what happened to your teammate in the last game? I don't take Sean's performance as a median measure of a unit's ability on the tabletop :) There were plenty of outlier events going on in that prince's demise (Seth's incredibly accurate Overwatch fire being one big one). The Prince still lived for most of the game despite his crappy rolling - if Fed had been using him I would have seen that guy last a lot longer. Regardless, doing the taste test of a Prince vs. a Harpy/Crone - not a whole lot of comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romans832 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't believe I'm hearing this right, but Deamon Princes are awful. They're horribly overpriced with wings, and they're easy to take down with massed bolter fire. Did you even watch what happened to your teammate in the last game? Oh my, try fighting a flying circus. Eldar might be the bomb, but I still couldn't hurt them enough to stop the pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Lash Flyrant is pretty sweet, just hope you dont come up against a bloodthrister. Same amount of points, swings before the flyrant, 6 attacks, 3.6 hit, .57 chance of insta-death vs .27 chance with the Tyrant, and that is the flyrant getting the charge. I just dont see anything in the 'nid book that daemons don't do better. Maybe shooting, but daemons can take soul grinders, ally in oblits, forge fiends, havocs, heldrakes, and prescience them. Crap Daemons can ally in a Lemon Russ squad and a Vendetta squad. Daemonettes > Termagants, Seekers > Gargoyles, Bloodthrister > flyrant, all for the same point costs, and no synapse. Heavy support is the only bit that leaves daemons, but Princes and Soul Grinders are pretty dang good. This is pretty disappointing. Daemon FMCs are around 300 points. Of course they're better than FMCs are are close to half the cost. Since 4-5 FMCs for Daemons are 1100-1500 points there isn't anything left after you deal with those. The 5 Tyranid FMCs are coming in at about 900 points, and then there's 3-5 other T6 4-6W MCs and another 60-100 infantry models to deal with. These really are 2 different builds. Apples/Oranges 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I was comparing a flyrant w/swrds and lash to a blood thirster which both cost 250 points. Both are FMC with insta-death weapons. Yes the flyrant is lvl 2 psyker, but one of those is just to get synapse which you have to have, so pretty much lvl 1. I love 'nids, but who ever wrote the costs for this book was drunk for the first 3/4 of the units, the Heavy section is actually pretty damn good. Once they get a supplement where you can take any of the 'fexes outside of FoC, sounds pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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