Guest Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 55pts for 5 models, 105pts for 10. 1-use power weapons at I5. Ability to take double special weapons at 5-man. FA slot. Ran some rough riders the other day in a low point game. Pretty horrible match up for them, but got me thinking. Unit is one of my cheaper FA slots. Looks pretty cool. 12" +run/assault and the ability to take melta/plasma weapons. In the past, my issue with rough riders hasn't been that they are bad, it's been the issue that they are the only (or one of a few) element of my army that are advancing at that speed. They present an easy first blood target or kill point, and are likely the only viable target in range. Last game was different, I had a superheavy. That superheavy moves 12" per turn. They still died a horrible death, (beaten in assault by a GUO, then fled to be assaulted by a thrister...only survived the first combat because of a challenge). No real change in effectiveness, but I'm presently thinking about an IG army that advances 12" per turn and what it would look like. Mech IG doesn't really do this as it messes with their ability to shoot and russes can't keep up, this is something a bit new (possibly just for me). I do have DA allies often enough, so I could put some fast skimmers and bikers in the list and see what happens. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 I love Rough riders. I use them in my IG list. Mostly cause i love how my Bretonians look on the field. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The FA slot is pretty under used so it'd be pretty easy to run three units of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Also, previously written, albeit some time ago: Rough Ridaaaahs! and somewhat, but not a lot more recently: Beasts and Cavalry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 The FA slot is pretty under used so it'd be pretty easy to run three units of them. Vendettas... Though I only own two and they can squadron up, so I can easily have 1-2 free slots. I do own hellhounds, but they share the same models' chasis as my ordnance tanks and hydras. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Vendettas are really cool. A pair is so worthwhile. Add in those Rough riders though. Super fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Two ways rough riders could be better and they are linked. 1. If they could assault when coming out of reserve. This would make them a credible counter-assault unit, but the issue is that it is hard to hide them and they are pretty easy to kill with dedicated shooting and represent a clear danger to potential assault-oriented opponents. 2. If they could use Creed's ability and outflank. Sadly, the wording on this doesn't allow for cavalry, so they can't outflank either, which, again, if they could assault after coming out of reserve would make them really deadly. As it stands, it is easy to make blobs dangerous to assault (power axes, flamers, various allies) and therefore a counter-assault element is superfluous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 As far as how to use them, they are far more effective as counter assault units. Since guard tend to be a little more defensive, sending them out ahead will get them killed. Instead, punch FMCs that get to your tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 23, 2014 Report Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yeah I think they are a great counterattack. GREAT.They can explode almost any squad they hit. Almost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Two ways rough riders could be better and they are linked. 1. If they could assault when coming out of reserve. This would make them a credible counter-assault unit, but the issue is that it is hard to hide them and they are pretty easy to kill with dedicated shooting and represent a clear danger to potential assault-oriented opponents. 2. If they could use Creed's ability and outflank. Sadly, the wording on this doesn't allow for cavalry, so they can't outflank either, which, again, if they could assault after coming out of reserve would make them really deadly. As it stands, it is easy to make blobs dangerous to assault (power axes, flamers, various allies) and therefore a counter-assault element is superfluous. All good points, though all assume I'm using them in a way other than what I'm suggesting above. Rather than counter-assault, I'm thinking about the entire army moving at the speed of the rough riders (12" or more per turn). I'm considering them as light assault units, to be joined with heavy assault units. I will note that you can potentially outflank them by attaching an Inquisitor with that book relic that tests for leadership to grant abilities, with scout being specifically tested for pre-deployment. HQ would slow them, but you could outflank the unit, if needed. They're might be some other battle brother characters that could get scout/outflank for the rough riders. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 24, 2014 Report Share Posted January 24, 2014 Inquisition codex silliness. Gotta love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 An amusing and related find in the IG FAQ: Page 44 – Rough Riders, Hunting Lance. Replace the second paragraph with the following profile: Range S AP Type - +2 3 Melee, First Charge First Charge: Rough Riders use their hunting lances the first time they successfully charge into close combat, after which they cannot be used again. In addition to the profile above, a model armed with a hunting lance fights at the Initiative 5 step in the phase they use it Although not mentioned, changing the second paragraph to the above also removes the restriction which made the hunting lance not count able to get extra swings from a laspistol. So, rough riders have 3 attacks with the hunting lance, 4 on the sarge. So, stock unit at 55pts has 19 S5 ap3 attacks at initiative 5....? That's a pretty decent unit for the cost. To only add, unit has stock krak and frag grenades, 2 special weapon options without squad size increase required, and the unit is cavalry (hammer of wraith and 12" movement). Oh, and the sarge which can take a power weapon, does not replace their hunting lance with the power weapon selection. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 hmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 It's all about Mogul Kamir as well. He gives you rage, fearlesss, and furious charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Not to mention the plus d3 attacks himself. Although the way his rule is worded he gets the +d3 instead of the +1 for charging, and since Rage gives him +2, silly logic (i.e. My cat has 4 legs, My dog has 4 legs, therefore my dog is a cat) suggests he'd get +2d3 attacks on the charge. Wrong. Silly, but wrong. Not that I've got bits on standby to kitbash a unit for my Ad Mech army or anything.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I will note that you can potentially outflank them by attaching an Inquisitor with that book relic that tests for leadership to grant abilities, with scout being specifically tested for pre-deployment. HQ would slow them, but you could outflank the unit, if needed. They're might be some other battle brother characters that could get scout/outflank for the rough riders. -Pax Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. The Ld test is specifically tested AFTER deployment but before first turn. You can scout them up the field with that gear, but you can't Outflank with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. The Ld test is specifically tested AFTER deployment but before first turn. You can scout them up the field with that gear, but you can't Outflank with them. Yeah, caught that later. Too bad. Even if it did, moot point, as they can't split until after they come on from reserve, so the rough riders are considerably worse than other IG outflanking options (because they'd have to move at the speed of the INQ). It's all about Mogul Kamir as well. He gives you rage, fearlesss, and furious charge. Saw that. Drives up the unit cost too. +40pts, making a unit of 5 to be 95pts. That makes them more comparable to SM jump infantry or bikers. More damage, sure, but I'm not sure the point increase is of benefit. Anyway, I am building up a squad of these. Looks like I'm going with flamers in the squad, and the unit role is bane blade clean up (they run behind and attempt to hinder assault units). I'm looking at 60pts, for 5 riders, one with a flamer. The unit can hide behind the baneblade chasis with miminal LOS to enemies in the front arc. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Yeah I definitely wouldn't recommend the SC on a minimum squad. He seems awesome if your maxing them out. I grew up playing 40k with a guy that regularly fielded 20 roughriders with his IG. He really got some mileage out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Rough Riders are epic. Its Poland all over again. Does anyone else love that image as much as I do? Maybe I just watched too many Iron Maiden videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Rough Riders are epic. Its Poland all over again. Does anyone else love that image as much as I do? Maybe I just watched too many Iron Maiden videos. Mine are catachans on cold ones... -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aventine Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 Just a funny thought, but if you are playing around with Allies too; join up the ol' Chapter Master w/ Shield Eternal/Power Fist/Artificer Armour/ Bike. Gives em ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics to choice (Scars to give the squad hit and run woo) and he can play around with 10 ablative wounds or tank as needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoobert Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I have 12 rough rider models, two of which are outfitted with flamers and the rest with lances. I've played them many times and they always make me happy to field even though they are destroyed the majority of the time before they can be even marginally useful. If I could I would play them every game. Rough riders represent to me all that is good about the Imperial Guard and 40k in general. They are a totally gung-ho, utterly expendable expression of ineffective inginuity. They are an effective charge unit against: any model with Armor 3 or higher that is incapable of shooting them to pieces during overwatch or before they get with charge range that cannot withstand the inital "onslaught" of a dozen or two I5, AP3, Str5, WS3 attacks before pounding the horses to bits round 2 Few opposing units meet this criteria - but that's fine, right? Because Rough Riders are so cheap and can even score objectives 1/6th of missions. If you don't like charging, you can put two special weapons on a minimum 5 model RR squad and use them as a highly mobile flamer or melta team (with a melta bomb) capable of moving 12" before dealing medicore amounts of damage. Play 30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Just a funny thought, but if you are playing around with Allies too; join up the ol' Chapter Master w/ Shield Eternal/Power Fist/Artificer Armour/ Bike. Gives em ATSKNF and Chapter Tactics to choice (Scars to give the squad hit and run woo) and he can play around with 10 ablative wounds or tank as needed... I tried something similar a while back. Unit get's whittled off, character is stuck alone and dies, opponent get's two KP. Problem is that the character makes the expendable unit into something that isn't expendable, while driving the cost up to the point where the opponent actually feels a need to shoot at them instead of more viable targets. I do think IG need a mount option for some of their HQ options. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosGerbil Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Let's hope Rough Riders get scout next codex, and a small points drop. Chimeras with hull heavy flamers and meltavets want to advance. Turn one, move them all up and drop smoke. Turn 2 or 3 you can do some damage. You're not going to do much with multi-lasers. This also keeps the focus midfield so your artillery is relatively undisturbed. My mistake in the past is running just a few chimeras and in separate parts of the board, next time I will spam them since you are going to lose some the first couple turn. Dozer blades are recommended for this tactic. Also, if you have several together you can hide the AV 10 sides more easily. Sometimes disembarking makes sense, explosions can really hurt your squishy unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 Let's hope Rough Riders get scout next codex, and a small points drop. Chimeras with hull heavy flamers and meltavets want to advance. Turn one, move them all up and drop smoke. Turn 2 or 3 you can do some damage. You're not going to do much with multi-lasers. This also keeps the focus midfield so your artillery is relatively undisturbed. My mistake in the past is running just a few chimeras and in separate parts of the board, next time I will spam them since you are going to lose some the first couple turn. Dozer blades are recommended for this tactic. Also, if you have several together you can hide the AV 10 sides more easily. Sometimes disembarking makes sense, explosions can really hurt your squishy unit. Likely the overall cost will stay, but you won't start with the hunting lances, those will be purchased per model. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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