SM + Tau "Gunline" list critique / help

[KAPcom]

So, after going to TSHFT and seeing Aventine's lovely Tau+SM list, it got me thinking about my own list, and adding in some Tau allies seems doable. So, here's what I've got so far (just a prototype list, mind you. Highly variable at this point), I'm looking to build a fairly competative list that isn't going to get me stomped in a standard tournament format.

 

Tactics: The Buff-commander starts with different squads depending on army (lascannon sm for anti-armor, riptide for anti-MEQ, broadsides for anti-horde), with the riptide and storm guppies playing aggressive, kroot outflank for late game obj. grab or killing MC, and 10 man tactical squads either combat squad for 6 scoring units or keep together for tough to kill blobs.

 

SM (Imperial Fist chapter tactics)

HQ:

Naked libby, Mastery Level 2 (90)

 

Troops:

Tact. squad, 10 man, H.B., flamer, melta bombs (160)

Tact. squad, 10 man, H.B., flamer, melta bombs (160)

Tact. squad, 10 man, Lascannon, meltagun, melta bombs (175)

 

FA:

Stormtalon, T.L. lascannon (140)

Stormtalon, H.B. (110)

 

HS:

Lascannon Dev squad, 8 man (192)

Thunderfire Cannon (100)

 

Tau:

HQ:

Buff commander (160)

 

Elites:

Riptide, Ion, Interceptor (190)

 

Troops:

Kroot sniper squad, 10 man,  hound (75)

 

HS:

Missle-side squad, 3 man, interceptor (210)

 

 

 

[Guest]

Can you find points to up the dev squad to 10-man? It can be really nice to be able to combat squad them.

 

Might want a counter assault option, as force weapon libby without invulnerable represents your only melee option beyond the riptide  (which you really don't want locked in melee).

 

List does look strong for SM shooting.

-Pax

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

I would suggest sniper rounds on kroo if taking dog since you are outflanking objectives. That is ten points you can do weapon changes with.

[KAPcom]

@paxmiles: What is the benefit in combat squadding the dev. squad? The extra men are simply there to keep the lascannons alive. As for counter assault, what you reccomend as a counter assault unit?

 

@Bigglesworth: The kroot have sniper rounds, I totally neglegted to write them here. :)

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Oops man I hate typing on phone. Fail!

 

I meant to say I would not reccomend sniper on kroots since you are outflanking with dogs. Sniper rounds are heavy and if you outflank you won't be using sniper rounds often enough.

[galahad911]

@paxmiles: What is the benefit in combat squadding the dev. squad? The extra men are simply there to keep the lascannons alive. As for counter assault, what you reccomend as a counter assault unit?

 

@Bigglesworth: The kroot have sniper rounds, I totally neglegted to write them here. :)

 

If you can combat squad them, you can split the lascannons into 2 units, and fire on 2 targets.

[Justjokin]

If you can combat squad them, you can split the lascannons into 2 units, and fire on 2 targets.

 

[Guest]

Lots you can do with this. You can split the weapons evenly for two units able to target two units. You can put the heavy weapons all in one unit and have the other units screen them - this can work if you don't have actual cover, but have shrouding/stealth in abundance. You can put the signum and a single heavy weapon in one unit, then the other 3 in the other. You can also split to create a unit that assaults and a unit that shoots.

 

Lastly, you can keep them together, and just have a very durable dev unit...

-Pax

[KAPcom]

Wow, hadn't thought of any of that... good idea. Same with the sniper rounds, I'll take those out. As for counter assault units, what do you suggest?

[Chaos Lord Chris]

Are you particularly attached to the Imperial Fists chapter tactic? If not, I'd throw in the idea of taking Ultras for Tigurius. He's so much better than a standard Libby it isn't even funny (ML3, reroll any or all of his powers, access to Divination, re-roll failed psychic tests, re-roll reserves for those Stormtalons, and a pretty decent fixed Warlord trait). Sure you lose a bit of oomph on the bolters, but the Ultra Tactical Doctrine will give ALL your weapons a boost for a turn, and Tig will be there to hand out Divination buffs like candy.

[CaptainA]

What's the purpose of the naked libby? HQ Tax? Don't see it synergizing much with the army. I'd suggest the typical Chapter Master with all the fixins for counter assault, Chapter Master, Bike, Power fist or thunderhammer, Shield Eternal, auspex.

 

I'd probably also go with skyhammers on both talons. Makes them versatile against most any opponent.

[Mr.MoreTanks]

Keep the sniper rounds on the kroot. You have the option to use them or the normal rounds. You do not have to use sniper rounds.

[fluger]

What's the purpose of the naked libby? HQ Tax? Don't see it synergizing much with the army. I'd suggest the typical Chapter Master with all the fixins for counter assault, Chapter Master, Bike, Power fist or thunderhammer, Shield Eternal, auspex.

 

I'd probably also go with skyhammers on both talons. Makes them versatile against most any opponent.

While I agree with this, that is also something that costs, what, 140/150 pts more?  

 

For 90 pts you have a useful HQ.  While he has no access to divination, the telepathy tree is decent and is really only useful as a level 2.  

[KAPcom]

@CaptainA: The naked libby is simply HQ tax, but does provide some nice powers. I agree, 150+ points for an HQ in this list is a bit much with the other HQ already around there points wise. 

 

@Chaos lord Chris: Tiggy is great, but also running into the 165 pt HQ problem. The Tau commander pretty much does what Tiggy would be doing, but has guaranteed powers instead of having to roll on the table. As for the chapter tactics, I went with Imp. Fists instead of Ultramarines for the tankhunter lascannon squads (which transfers to the quad gun), as well as the general infantry buff.

[Guest]

As for counter assault units, what do you suggest?

Depends if you need the counter assault unit to win the assault, tarpit indefinitely or just delay an approaching enemy for a turn or two.

 

For delays, stock marines are fine. So long as the advancing units isn't loaded with a power weapon on every guy, 5-10 marines should be able to hold the advance for a turn or two without any upgrades. Ideal is to have a character in a unit like this, because if they just bring a single power weapon on a character, you can challenge for the purpose of dening their PW kills on the rest of the unit. Likewise if opponent is a character MC, the challenge will ensure the unit survives a turn longer.

 

SM scouts can also be viable as light assault or counter assault units. They'll shine over stock marines in situations where the opponent denies your armor anyway, like against bloodletters. It isn't that the scouts are more durable, it's just that their deaths cost less and they can have more attacks because they can take CCW+BP. Opponents tend to underestimate scouts too, which does play into their value.

 

With delay units, the unit doesn't have to be the entire unit, as a combat squad half will do the trick. In the note above about the devs, the bolter half of the dev squad would function as a delay unit. If willing to not use the signum, it would be ideal to include the sergeant with the assault unit, as mentioned for stock marines above.

 

For winning assaults, it breaks down to the type of opponent.

-TH/SS terminators are ideal for MCs and units of T4 models with multiple wounds (necron wraiths, tyranid warriors).

-Assault marines shine when denying the opponent's armor isn't important, but having 3+ armor is - this is especially true against horde units (ork boyz, horms).

-Lightning claw terms (and honor guard) shine when opponent has solid armor, ap3 weapons, but limited ap2 weaponry (stock marines, SM scouts, assault marines).

-Chainfist terms shine when up against walkers (and super heavy walkers), though squad size needs to take into account the assumption that you will take losses because the walker will swing first. Chainfist terms are not usually the best approach against walkers, as shooting is the best approach, but in assault they are a good approach.

-Fist terms are useful when the opponent can't deny 2+ armor, can deny 3+ and has 2+ armor of their own (LC terms, honor guard)

-Dreadnoughts (with DCCWs) are useful when they swing first against other walkers and when the opponent has limited means to swing back (unit can only glance with limited number of attacks, opponent can't swing back, opposing walker has lower initiative, opposing walker charged through terrain). Dreadnoughts fail things that can reliably penetrate them (MC smash, melta bombs, chainfists)

 

There's others for SM, but most of them are thinking along the same lines as above. ICs joined can buff this sort of thing. You can also dramatically improve odds of winning assault by shooting up the intended target prior to the assault. SM scouts are a pretty solid clean up unit, if you want to just use them to kill the remaining guy or two after shooting up the unit with lots of weapons (5 melee scouts will probably kill a lone TH/SS terminator, a few assault marines, and so forth). 

 

For tarpit units, SM don't do this too well. Squad sizes usually aren't big enough or they kill the intended tarpit unit. You can use a dread without melee weapons to good effect here, but only if the opponent can't really do much damage to the dread. Remember that the "our weapons are useless" rule does warrant a sweeping advance by the dreadnought. Crusader squads could work, but they'll really cost too much for use as a tarpit. With TAU allies, try a big blob of kroot with an attached SM character to give them ATSKNF or fearless.

-Pax

[Alexi]

What about 5 scouts with a Land speeder storm? 100 points and the storm can help with the preventing assualt by beating the unit to the punch.

[KAPcom]

Not super fond of scouts in a landspeeder, a little too fragile for my taste. As for counter assault, the kroot mob seems to be the best / cheapest option for this army, as it also counts as scoring, I'll see if I can't get it to fit into the list. Also, do Tau confer their supporting fire rule to their allies? So, if a SM unit gets assaulted within 6" of a tau unit, do the tau units also get to fire overwatch?

[WestRider]

The Unit being Charged does not have to have Supporting Fire or be from the Tau Codex, it just has to be "Friendly", so Tau Codex Units and Battle Bros.