keeping up with the 40K-ians

[Brother Glacius]

So now a new Chaos codex is about to hit. I'm normally all for content, but this seems a bit ridiculous. I'm really curious to hear from event organizers how they intent to handle all of this. I mean on the one hand, it seems like you really can't block anything that has come out, but then on the other, there is no way most players are going to be able to keep up with the content, and issues during play are bound to arise at a much higher rate.

 

I will admit that I feel completely overwhelmed by the current release pace...and I don't even play often. What scares me is the risk of multiple books that have slightly different rules or options on the same unit. For example, the new hellbrute kit. GW wants to sell it. But hellbrutes are not exactly a top tier unit from CSM codex. Even people that got the model from the box set aren't typically fielding it. So GW releases a new "codex" that heavily features the hellbrute. Does that mean they give it new rules to make it attractive and viable?

 

Again, this is just speculation, I don't know what the new codex has in it. But that is my fear. GW will just start pumping out new codexes that enhance flagging models so that sales will pick up.

[JamesBeadle]

I can see this being a serious issue for tournaments and organized play, but it has been said before and I think this proves the point, GW is not concerned about such types of play. They publish for the gamer, not the tournament scene. It is a basic game philosophy difference between them and companies like PPress who recognize that a core aspect of thier business is organized play and make balanced play a focus in development (with varying success). As a garage gamer, I like not knowing everything (like I ever could anyhow) about the game. Surprises are fun. I trust the guys I game with though to play fair. 

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Yeah it is a mixed bag for sure. I think though you are right tourneys need to have cut off times for gw updates. Example all releases a month prior to event can't be used. Formations need to be banned in my opinion until all armies get a handful.

 

I like the idea of 2 dexes period, no inq, tau and sm.

 

I don't think it takes a lot to keep the game tourney friendly where players don't feel data overload. These comments are made with no regard to balance.

[Torg]

I agree wholeheartedly Bro G… it really feels like they are just intent on printing money at this point.  I mean - print books drive sales… period.  Yes its always the way it is… but the pace is pretty brisk at this point.  

[scottshoemaker]

Now hold on, the biggest gripe I've heard from folks for years is how long the release cycle is, and how long it takes for something to get an update.  We are now in the time of of EXACTLY what the greater community has always asked for.

 

By the way, ya'll realize the Ork Codex is still from late 4th ed, Right?

[Brother Glacius]

As I said, I like content. My worry is the appearance of content to push model sales and the potential for varying rules. Also, this content isn't coming cheap. $50 a pop for books that are supplements is plain crazy in my book.

[Lord Hanaur]

so ironic.  They finally give us the Warmachine treatment (massive release all at essentially one time with ongoing supplements later) and we aren't happy?  hehehe.

 

Im not either but I'm just saying, its ironic.

 

But look at it this way:  when you started 40K, you didn't know all the material and codex's.  so in some ways its not really all that big a difference between when we first started playing and now.  I just think that players, like me, who have grown good at the game feel ourselves unable to cope initially with the wash of info and probably are going to lose some games early on to unexpected stuff that, later, we wont.  But those losses will seem magnified by the "newb factor" where you kind of feel like you have no idea what to do to counter this new threat.

[scottshoemaker]

It only matters if you are trying to buy everything. When I got back into 40k I was shocked to hear how tournament players bought every codex, studied them, and figured out how to beat them. That's way too hardcore for me, and I don't enjoy that type if play.

 

Why is so much variety a problem? Pushing content to sell models is a business plan. Lego does the same thing.

[illbillya]

I love the new codexes coming out to me it keeps the game fresh.  There is never a dominant army for long if at all by the time there all released.  Seams to me by the time there all out every army will have enemies they are designed to beat and others there designed to do poorly against.  I also think it give it a more realistic feel as in war Surprises always happen.  In war commanders are not issued books that list there opponents abilities and tricks so when someone in a tournament gets blindsided by a new rule for an army to me its par of the fog of war.  But really if people are spending that much time and money buying books and studying them you would think the tournament prize packages would be real money in large quantities lol

[pretre]

scottshoemaker has it down. We have been asking for more frequent releases for years and now we've got it. It only really hurts folks who buy to have the best new thing. For the people who buy to have cool armies and/or make their own armies good, it isn't anywhere near as bad.

[dashneeb]

To say that tournament play is where your core business is, is to not understand game companies at all.

 

Your core is casual players.  People who never show up at a game shop, but play at home with their friends.  

 

Tournament players are a small, but vocal part of the business, and depending on how you want your games to be done, should be as such.

 

The reason Games Workshop doesn't appear to like tournaments anymore shows that they're less concerned with the hardcore tournament scene, and is trying to go back to focus on the casual player.

[WestRider]

I'd say they're not even focusing on the casual players anymore so much as the collectors. The people who are shelling out for all the limited edition stuff, and have the cash around to pick up whatever cool new thing comes out, not on the basis of game effectiveness, but more or less just on the basis of "Ooh, shiny!"

[Brother Glacius]

To say that tournament play is where your core business is, is to not understand game companies at all.

 

I'm curious as to who said this?

[Torg]

I have been playing and collecting 40k (eldar) since 1989-90… I have been playing when they have only had ONE book - lol.  I don't hate it that they have all the choices now.  But I do mind if its books for books and sales sake without any regard for the game at all.  I have grown to like to paint minis more than play… so yeah I can just collect without books at all.  But I do like a reasonable playability.  A modicum of tactical thinking or game play.. etc.  And the older I get - sometimes the weekend tourney is my best bet for 6 games in a year lol.  

 

So when I say that maybe GW is simply out pacing me… is to say that my interest is waining because my time is precious (to read rules… to paint… to play).  And keeping up with things is part of that.  I don't need to pick up every book - and most of the time I don't.  My own particular problem is trying to keep up with a game that I have not played in a year… and if with the flood of rules coming out that changes the rules I basically don't know - is it worth my hobby time to try and catch up.  OR rather - forget it and collect mini's for mini's sake to paint.  And forsake any reasoning to play the game.  

[Guest]

Now hold on, the biggest gripe I've heard from folks for years is how long the release cycle is, and how long it takes for something to get an update.  We are now in the time of of EXACTLY what the greater community has always asked for.

 

By the way, ya'll realize the Ork Codex is still from late 4th ed, Right?

Brisk release pace, barely improved codex release pace with even fewer FAQs.

-Pax

[WestRider]

Yep. I'd rather see them focus on actual Codex releases and FAQs rather than supplements and dataslates all over the place. It's not the overall rate of releases that's bothering me, it's what they're doing with them.

[AscentStudios]

I'm curious as to who said this?

As a game company owner who ran an organized play system alongside casual play (admittedly, in RPGs), dashneeb is 100% right. Does anyone think for a second that 50+% of all games of 40k played happen in shops, with prizes on the line? I play with a group of 12 people at least 1/month, 10 of whom would never think of playing in a tournament nowadays. They buy a crapload of models, though, and love 40k. Honestly, it's the casual players who will keep your revenues steady - the guys who are slowly building up and collecting an entire army (about 1 of every unit), lovingly painting and modeling them...not the bandwagon hoppers who only really buy when there's a new power build to jump at. Plus, the casual gamer absorbs the cost increases with far more grace - since he's likely only invested in 1-2 armies, jacking the price on a few units at a time tends to effect him less drastically than the more Fanaticus of us who are collecting or recollecting armies at an unusually high volume and/or rate.

[scottshoemaker]

I see this as a fine way to bring in 3rd party models to fit into these niche suppliments to get on the table.  There are so many great models coming out by indy companies. 

[dashneeb]

Brother Glacius, no one said it directly, but James Beadle hinted to it about Privateer Press above.