PanO Help

[Yarbicus]

As I am planning to enter the Infinity fray, here are the models I currently have:

3 Order Sgts w/Combi Rifle
Specialist Sgt w/Multi Sniper
Magister Knight w/AP CCW
Teutonic Knight  w/Combi Rifle
Jeanne D'Arc w/Mobility Armor, Spitfire
Jeanne D'Arc w/AP CCW, Multi Rifle
3 Fusilier w/Combi Rifle
Nisse w/Multi Sniper
Orc w/Combi Rifle
Father Knight w/DA CCW
Akal Commando w/Combi Rifle

Can I make a usable force out of this?  What  is the typical game size?  What should I add?

[Sgt. Rock]

Typical game size is 300 points, but to be honest, it's recommended that even seasoned wargamers start at 150 and work their way up in increments of 50 points or so. Infinity has a LOT to take in, and trying to dive into a full 300 point game can get overwhelming *fast.*

That said, what you have is good. I assume that you have the Icestorm starter kit, from what you've listed. The Orc actually has a MULTI-rifle, which is considerably more useful than a regular combi. I'm also seeing the Military Orders starter there? I don't know much about MO (they're next on my list to pick up) but I know that the Order Sergeants are useful. You can run them as the TO camo forward observer, who's a total badass. The Nisse sniper is an incredible piece, I swear by him in vanilla. The Father-Knight is a brute, and his hacker profile is outright terrifying. The one thing I can see that you're missing is an HMG. I'd recommend either the Swiss Guard (the new one coming out in Beyond Icestorm, or the old "Swiss Miss" if you can find her) or the Aquila Guard. Both are top-notch murder machines. You also are going to want some remotes. PanO has some very, very good remotes, and you definitely want them. I'd say the Dronbots box and either Bulleteers or Peacemakers. You'll need the support pack, despite how gawd-awful ugly the Trauma-Doc and Machinist models are... it's the only place to get those little Palbots, so even if you proxy better looking models for the engineer and doctor, you'll need those little boogers. After that, you can think about expanding wherever you want. Is there a particular sectorial that catches your eye? I play vanilla and NCA, and I can say that the Fusilier box and the NCA starter both have some really great stuff you'll get a lot of mileage out of. The Hexa sniper is a really good one to have. You can pick up a TAG down the road, but I'd recommend you focus on learning the game without them for a while first. TAGs are very powerful, but they're also finicky and can be tricky to use at first. Mostly, just play with what you have in some smaller games for a little while, and when you have the wherewithal, get the remotes and some big bad boy with an HMG, and then grab what looks interesting. Infinity is an amazing game in that you can basically make nearly anything work. You definitely need to put thought into the models you put on the table, but a good player can make average profiles perform pretty well. So get the stuff you like, play with it, and learn the game. Welcome to Infinity!

[Yarbicus]

Thanks! That is helpful info.

[Raindog]

I think with you models, you may wish to consider the PAN-O, subsection of Military Orders.

I like Jeanne as your LT, the Niss as you ARO, anti-camo or smoke piece, 2 infiltrator Spec Sgts (you can use you combi rifle ones), the Fusilliers can me made into medic and Forward, observers, (but, you probably want to get the Support Weapon Box with Missile Launcher, HMG, etc to round out the list and shooting ranges), and the Father Knight Hacker is a beast.

I would play with the points in army to see what you get and look up rules to see what the skill give you.

[Sgt. Rock]

Sadly, the Nisse isn't available in any sectorials at the moment, which is why I'm always so drawn towards playing vanilla PanO. If you want something akin to the Nisse sniper in MO, you have to look at the MULTI-Sniper loadout on the Black Friar. Still has MSV2, but trades the mimetism and a pip of armor for a BTS of 3 and a nanopulser. Joan is a great Lt. in either MO or Vanilla, because it gives all of her army V:Courage, which is sometimes necessary on low WIP models like Fusiliers and Auxilia. In MO, it's less of an issue, because everything is Religious, but that free coordinated Lt. order is always nice. The downside is that 9 times out of 10, people will be gunning for her on the assumption that she's your Lt. That said, you can use that to your advantage and run a cheap Fusilier Lt. and just go nuts with Joanie, because she's quite a capable murderbeast herself. 

Have you checked out Infinity Army 6? It's a free tool on Corvus Belli's website for building lists. It's actually the "official" list building tool, and any ITS tournament you go to is going to want you to bring a printout from Army (which is fine, because the software is fantastic.) It lets you dink around with army builds and look at stats and loadouts all in one convenient place, and it includes tables for weapon range bands and direct links to the wiki for skills and equipment. It's a HUGE resource that you should be looking at, and a great way to plan things out. 

Also, don't be afraid to proxy things. As long as you're clear and consistent with your opponent, people are pretty chill about letting you proxy models, especially when you're first starting out. It's a good way to learn what you want before you start spending money on stuff willy-nilly. It's definitely better than what I do, buying models randomly and *then* trying them out. If you really wanna try out an Orc with an HMG but all you have is the Multi rifle version, nobody is going to begrudge you that. Just be clear from the outset and remain consistent. Models like that Father Knight from Icestorm are awesome because he doesn't have a gun modeled on him, just that badass sword that they all get when they graduate from Father Knight State University, so you can say he's got a missile launcher or a spitfire or whatever. I would definitely recommend buying the remotes, but just about anything else you can proxy for a few games (and that's only because you need the proxy to be basically the same silhouette size.)

[Raindog]

My bad, Niss are vanilla only at this time.

[Yarbicus]

If I stick with MO, which I like, at 150 I get:

Joan

Father Knight

2 Spec Sgt Infiltrators

 

Seems like a pretty small crew.

[Exile]

Very.  Joan, or for that matter, even the FK, is tough to run at 150.  Your primary resource in this game is Regular Orders, and it's a good idea, in any list buildout, to at least TRY to get to one full combat group of 10 orders. (150 I'd a bit of a different beast but perhaps something more like this would be more efficacious:

 

PanOceania──────────────────────────────────────────────────7  1

FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

FUSILIER Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

FUSILIER (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

NISSE MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 34)

SPEC. SERGEANT (CH: TO Camouflage, Infiltration, Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1 | 27)

MAGISTER KNIGHT Panzerfaust, Light Shotgun / Pistol, DA CCW. (0 | 23)

AKAL COMMANDO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, E/M CCW. (0.5 | 28) 3 SWC | 146 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

 

That being said, have you run through the Icestorm missions yet?  They leave a bit to be desired regarding some of the more advanced rules, buy offer an excellent basis for the core mechanics of the game, plus several unit-specific special rules and equipment.  It's an excellent go.

[Raindog]

2 hours ago, Yarbicus said:

If I stick with MO, which I like, at 150 I get:

Joan

Father Knight

2 Spec Sgt Infiltrators

 

Seems like a pretty small crew.

I was shooting for 300 point, not 150. At 150 points, Pete has given you a very nice list of a general Pan-O list with the models you have.

[Yarbicus]

Thanks guys!

So, why are remotes so important? I don't have any yet and need more info before I get some.

[Sgt. Rock]

Remotes provide cheap orders and utility. For example, the Bulleteer has either a heavy shotgun or a spitfire, a 6-4 MOV, and ODD, which makes him an excellent aggressive gunfighter. Pathfinders are forward observers armed with a combi rifle, but they also have sensor, sniffers, Sat-lock, deactivator, and a repeater. Sierra dronbots have a total reaction HMG, which means it gets its full burst of 4 dice in both active and reactive turns. Point being, remotes offer tremendous utility for a relatively small investment of points, and you can buff them with hacking (I won't get into EVO hacker remotes, because that's a whole other ball of wax.) They tend to be a bit fragile, but if you take care of them and use them properly, they can be a very important piece of your list. Personally, when I play PanO, I never leave home without at least a Pathfiner, and probably a Bulleteer, as well. The only real downside is that you need to have either a hacker or a TAG in you list to field them. Hackers are easy to proxy, though, if you don't have the specific model. For example, here's a Military Orders list with the contents of the Dronbots remote box:

Military Orders
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

8  
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 13)
ORDER SERGEANT MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 21)
FUSILIER Hacker (Hacking Device) Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 18)
FUSILIER Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)
PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
TEUTONIC KNIGHT Combi Rifle, Panzerfaust / Pistol, AP CCW. (0 | 34)
SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)

3 SWC | 150 Points

Open in Infinity Army

You have a 3-man core link of Order Sergeants, to get that extra burst on the sniper rifle. The Fusilier hacker allows the use of the remotes, and can throw up supportware like Assisted Fire, which gives the remote Marksmanship level 2. You have a solid utility piece in the Pathfinder, an aggressive heavy infantry in the Teutonic Knight, and the Sierra can be used both offensively and defensively (careful, though, it's fragile.) This list gives you a few big guns and an aggressive heavy hitter to play with, as well as a fair bit of utility with the Pathfinder and hacker. 

 

[Raindog]

For the most part, you never have to play with a remote. Remotes are another tool each player has access to. Remote can be generally broken down into the following types. 1: Attack bots. Theses are pieces that can surge forward and cause problems to your opponent. Some have optics that made them hard to see or hit. Some have good guns. Attack bots tend to be faster than standard troops. 2: Utility bots. These bots can shoot, but they a series of other useful skills like sensor or to see camouflaged troops, flash pulses, minesweepers, baggage bots, repeaters for hacking, or the ability to be forward observers. 3: Total Reaction Bots. These allow a full burst when firing in ARO. They can cause headaches for your opponents to deal with. 4: Hacker bots. These remotes are hackers and can aid your troops in a number of practical ways.

As Sgt. Rock said they can be buffed by hacking problems and repaired by a Engineers to keep them in the battle.

Finally, to take a remote, you need to take a TAG, a hacker, or and EVO remote.

[Justjokin]

I usually add little 3pt helper bots(nasmat bot does the same order as the doctor, even if on the other side of the board.  Or I have 8pts and the only regular order I can get is some bot I haven't had the pleasure of getting familiar with....yet