dalmer Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Hello there, I'm starting a new topic and requesting feedback from you fine folks, who are (as far as I'm concerned) the "go-to" folks for the local gaming scene. This topic is in no way shape or form trying to disrespect any established gaming locales or potential future locales... but feedback is appreciated because of a recent opportunity that has arisen. Due to my not knowing if things have been tossed out publicly or not yet, please excuse any vagueness that goes out in this post. Not trying to be snarky, just trying to be honorable to the seller. A local business person has requested a meeting with me to talk about selling their business to me (it is NOT Dark Tower Games, ha ha ha). Tossing all the business numbers aside, I'm looking for more of an emotional response from you fine folks * Dark Tower Games seems to be the only gaming show in town... is "brand loyalty" what keeps folks there? Or is it simply lack of another option? * If I purchased the business, it would focus on three general areas: Magic the Gathering; gaming; and comic books. From all the market research I've done, those are listed in order of what actually pays the bills... MTG appears to be far and away the profitable thing. * What things are you fine folks looking for in a shop? I have my thoughts and ideas but would rather accept reality and from folks "in the know" Again, this topic is NOT meant to cast a dark light on any existing businesses and I certainly don't want to start any trouble amongst the local gaming scene... I just wanted to know if opening another gaming store would even be worth it in your folks' eyes or if this is truly a "one store town." Your questions, comments and concerns are all welcomed and I really appreciate your time! Stay safe, don 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Depends on what you consider the town and where you are looking to locate. I look for traffic of possible new blood/ opponents and dependability of ordering stuff. Dark tower has "brand loyalty" from me as they are honest about stock and availability to me and with the bus close by and downtown foot traffic more people find it to possibly start playing. There is enough geographic area a second store might be possible but this population doesn't seem ready to support it from a war gaming side and it is not the only magic place in town so you would have more competition there. Also while I'm no comic book person there are other options for those as well in town. Eagles was an only place in town sort of thing Dark Tower is run professionally and is a place you can be proud to call the "home" shop. Just my two cents, that said I don't make it out as much as I'd like any more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted December 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Thank you for the information and perspective, it's appreciated! Location would be in Bellingham... ideally I would've liked Sehome Village because I think that's an awesome location but the current shop is near Bellingham High School. Wouldn't be worried so much from a competitive standpoint, more of a "can the area sustain two shops." GW products at 20% is super doable, Magic the Gathering is doable due to having someone knowledgeable about the ins and outs... but I reckon it's all for naught if the community is only willing to support the one shop, if that makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Ah yes i know that store so the competition in magic would not be as heavy as I was possibly thinking. I know some magic players and I've over heard some comparison talk. The ambiance of dark tower usually wins out but they will shop both for singles as selection changes and prices are what they are. Parking and transportation to that location leave it with less car travel to traffic but you pick up all the high schoolers... moving that store could be problematic as the customer base it has would not necessarily easily translate to sehome village and you would come into more direct competition with dark tower. College freshmen in the dorm would find it easier but is it easier enough than downtown? Losing the cross the street crowd seems bad but I'm no business man not interested in that level of risk in my life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 There are already a couple of other game stores in town you might check out: Games and Things up on Meridian has got an excellent board game selection but a more exclusive crowd using their play space, which is mostly dedicated toward Battletech and Flames of War. Also The Comics Place sells game stuff and comics (naturally) and have opened up a satelite store over in Fairhaven and are also opening (or have already opened) table space upstairs from the store including food and beer service from the Shoe. Are they sustainable? Remains to be seen. Games and Things has been around a while, but is a weird kind of store. Also there has been a fair bit of grumbling on the Bellingham subreddit about Dark Tower from the MTG crowd, or at least a few agitators. I don't really know enough about that scene to weigh in on the legitimacy of their concerns, but it's out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted December 2, 2017 Report Share Posted December 2, 2017 Games and Things is still there because the owner also runs a charity/minigoodwill thing and does a lot of painting commissions. The board games and miniatures he sells is a minor part of the business. I wouldn't view that as competition at all. There are about 10 people that shop there and only there with next to zero influx. Having gone to the gaming store in question and having attended Bellingham High School most of the folks go to Dark Tower. I think it would take quite a bit to revamp the location. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted December 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2017 I really appreciate all the feedback, kind folks! Investing in a gaming store was my "end game" for many, many years... but I can't retire for (7) more years. So I would basically have to hire out a MTG specialist, a games specialist and a comics specialist. I've chatted up my business plan with some shop owners in the Seattle area and they think it's doable... but I think I know going in that I'm not looking to make bank, but rather have a fun place to have for the gaming/comic community where I can hang out when I'm retired and putter around with stuff I enjoy. Revamping would be the biggest thing, yes Eli. That would be the biggest priority because the other stuff is in place more or less. Really enjoy the talk, folks... thank you so much! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 You may want to consider something out county Don. There is a quasi-successful game store in Lynden and I don't feel that it is ran very well. Ferndale is a growing community and has no gaming store that I am aware of, but your primary customer becomes high schoolers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 I mean I do have some loyalty to DT. I've known Nathaniel for a long time so that's part of it. DT also saved us from the hellhole that was eagles. Also I am loyal to the place due to the constant improvements they make to the store including to the gaming area in the back even though board games and magic make the store significantly more money. I also really appreciate the fact that the business is clean and neatly organized as most gaming stores are nerd basements. So most of my money goes to DT but I still get stuff here and there from other shops in town. So if you opened a store I would certainly buy things every once in a while but I imagine that most of my business would still be with DT. I think you would have to do something really special to attract a customer base. This goes for the comic side of it too. Comic's Place is a great and well organized and run store. You would certainly face stiff competition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathonicus Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 The store you're talking about is one I used to go to for comics and cards when I lived on Cornwall, but that was many, many years ago. So the business has been around for a long time, and I think it's pretty established. I've returned to it a few times over the years for random things - a graphic novel, gundam figure, or just to see if they still had the sweet bucket of 25 cent Mage Knight figures! I think that it's a good location, and could use a facelift and redesign inside. While DT has a great selection of boardgames and mini games, one thing it kinda sucks at honestly is RPGs. Now those can be expensive to stock, but I think a fairly safe bet especially considering the closeness of the school would be Pathfinder and D&D support, with some good places to play and access to the books. Nathaniel put all the books behind the counter so folks wouldn't just read them, and honestly, it probably means I won't buy books there anymore. Part of the experience for me of picking up an RPG is the fun of browsing at my leisure and checking out the interior. I know I can ask to see them, but it's just a different vibe and it turns me off buying that product there. The location doesn't have the foot traffic, but it's not remote. A good events schedule would probably help bring in more people. Certain things like Xwing and Destiny might be big enough that the town can support two stores hosting regular events - who knows. I think you're crowd there might tend younger. Personally, I have a fair amount of brand loyalty to DT because he's put so much work into making it an awesome store and he's been really accommodating for the Warhamsters. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 I think there could be a market to turn a new store into a successful space, but I think you might be better off excluding comics from the menu as Comics Place has those on lockdown pretty hard, especially with their expansion into Fairhaven. I also heard from a Comics Place Facebook post that the previous owners of Cosmic are already redirecting all of their old subscribers to Comics Place so you might have a hard time pulling in that audience. I do think a shop selling super accessible games like Magic and Destiny right next to the High School is a good business plan though and if you focus on having a very welcoming atmosphere, especially to women and younger folk (which are groups more likely to be intimidated by DT's more heavy-nerd vibe), I think that could be an area to shine in. I have also heard some rumors about yet another game store attempting to open up in town from a former co-worker and also there is the GW store coming in so this may either be a good time to get in or a really bad time when there will be lots of competition. I'm no business expert! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 In addition to the aforemention current and upcoming stores, there is also Rook and Rogue. They sell used boardgames, so they aren't direct competition, but they are where folks want to go when they want to hang out and play a boardgame. There was also a short-lived gamestore that opened and closed this past year in Fairhaven. I forget the name. They were hoping their proximity to Fairhaven MS and their focus on Pokemon cards and kids-oriented RPGs would help create a niche. It didn't! For my part, I don't go to DTG because it's the only game in town. I go to DTG because Nathaniel has built a great shop, slowly over time. I love the central location, and between the terrain, the tables, the ever-growing board game selection ... the store keeps improving. I think DTG could most improve in the area of family-friendliness. Staff who ignore or talk-down to female customers with money to spend (and who know more about boardgames than them) in order to play Magic is a big no-no. With that said, I've never been in Cosmic before, so I don't know anything about their set-up, vibe, or amount of traffic. I'd look carefully at past business records if it were me. Even though you'll do things differently, it will take some time to overcome the past reputation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted December 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Awesome feedback folks, thanks again! Stuff just sometimes pops up and although things are cool to dream about, I have to go in with eyes open and look at what facts are... and you fine folks help provide perspective, which is always nice. Thanks again! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyote Posted December 5, 2017 Report Share Posted December 5, 2017 Over the years, four of my friends have opened game stores and then within a couple of years, closed their doors. It's a tough business and if your goal is to make a good living, you are in for a rude awakening. As such, unless you have other sources of income (e.g. good pension, spousal income, lucrative investments, etc.), I wouldn't recommend it. You can save yourself years of lost time and lost sleep by taking out loan for $100K, withdrawing it all in cash, and then lighting that $100K on fire. On the other hand, you probably shouldn't listen to me... If you decide to do this, I have a few pieces of advice. First, don't run the place like it's your own personal gaming club. My four friends fell into this trap and it played a significant role in their failure of their business. Your game store isn't your hang out, it's a business, so run it like a business. This, I believe, is one of the reasons why Nathaniel has been so successful. Dark Tower is run like a business. Second, if you can swing it, sell beer and wine. In Seattle, both Card Kingdom and the Raygun Lounge (formerly Raygun Games), are doing this and it's working. In addition to providing your business with another stream of income, it turns your game store into a destination for people who don't necessarily self-identify as "gamers". How many couples do you see playing games at Dark Tower? On weekends and in the evenings, you will see non-gamer couples and their non-gamer friends at Club Moxie (Card Kingdom) and Raygun Lounge, playing board games and having a few drinks. And unlike bars, these drinkers tend to be well mannered because getting drunk and looking for 'hook-ups' isn't their reason for being there. Third, rather than competing with Dark Tower, have you considered going into business with Nathaniel? Depending upon it's location, this could be Dark Tower 2. Nathaniel has an established and successful business model. He has business accounts, a line of credit, insurance, payroll, accounting, loyal customers, product knowledge, and a lot of experience in this industry. Why recreate the wheel? I'm confident that the two of your could create a win-win situation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted December 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Awesome stuff, thank you sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 something Koyote said about partnering with Nathaniel sparked a memory... Nathaniel is an aggressive and dominant personality, he doesn't brook competition well, he's already changed his stock twice that I know of to counter competition. So if you are set to be in Bellingham, I strongly agree with Koyote 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted December 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2017 Sounds like it's a moot point anyhow now... the seller might be going for a more lucrative offer. A small group of others might be going off to start a gaming store. I'll just go back to my regular job (/cry). Ha ha ha... thanks for all the input. I never had issues with anything or anyone, Nathaniel included. He can run his business how he wants, no worries. I was going to cater to a different crowd. Maybe when I get to retire I'll revisit things, who knows. Appreciate all the feedback and perspective though, you folks are great! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted December 8, 2017 Report Share Posted December 8, 2017 intrizic's point is a really good one. 23 hours ago, dalmer said: I'll just go back to my regular job (/cry) Isn't your day job being a badass, caring, community-minded cop who shot a person (to save people), and then immediately saved the life of the person you just shot? I reckon you'll do just fine. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts