Jump to content

I Like Tanks!


Ish

Recommended Posts

So is this list just completely filthy "Imperial Soup" or a fun way to represent an Space Marine Siege Company? You make the call!

I don't like mixing Chapter Selections within one army, but there's no other way to get Sergeant Chronus in the list and the only model in the entire army that will be using the Chapter Tactic is the Techmarine on Bike. So I don't think there is too much cheese in this soup. 

Let me know what you think.

++ Battalion Detachment +5 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [ 54 PL, 919 pts] ++
**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +
Primaris Captain w/Power Fist: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Trait: Storm of Fire, Relic: The Armour Indomitus [ 92 pts ]
Primaris Lieutenants 1x Power Sword, 1x Master-Crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle [ 149 pts ]

+ Troops +
Intercessor Squad: 5x Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher; Sergeant w/ Chainsword [ 85 pts ]
Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Chainsword [ 170 pts ]
Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Fist [ 179 pts ]

+ Elites +
Primaris Ancient Bolt Rifle [ 69 pts ]

+ Heavy Support +
Hellblaster Squad: 5x Heavy Plasma Incinerators [ 175 pts ]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [56 PL, 980 pts] ++
**Chapter Selection**: Ultramarines

+ HQ +
Sergeant Chronus in Predator: Hunter-Killer Missile, Pintle Storm Bolter, Twin Lascannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons [ 218 pts ]
Techmarine on Bike: Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Servo-Arm, Twin Boltguns [ 77 pts ]

+ Heavy Support +
Predator: Predator Autocannon Turret, Pintle Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons [ 152 pts ]
Predator: Predator Autocannon Turret, Pintle Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons [ 152 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter  [ 127 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter  [ 127 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter  [ 127 pts ]

++ Fortification Network Detachment +0 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [4 PL, 100pts] ++
Aegis Defense Line: Icarus Lascannon  [ 100 pts ]

++ Total: [9 CP, 114 PL, 1999 pts] ++

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ish said:

So is this list just completely filthy "Imperial Soup" or a fun way to represent an Space Marine Siege Company? You make the call!

I don't like mixing Chapter Selections within one army, but there's no other way to get Sergeant Chronus in the list and the only model in the entire army that will be using the Chapter Tactic is the Techmarine on Bike. So I don't think there is too much cheese in this soup. 

Let me know what you think.

 

I don't like it. For starters, if they are a siege company, they should all be one company, and company is a subdivision of chapter, so they should all be one chapter. 

Also, in terms of siege with regards to your list, I don't see what the imperial fists are bringing to this multi-chapter force. Seems like the Ultramarines are the siege company, and the imperial fists are just bringing a regular company to assist them.

If the plan is to ally tanks lead by a tank HQ, have you considered Astra Millitarum allies? Maybe ditch the imperial fists (because you love chronus and the fists aren't bringing anything siege related...), and then run a Tank heavy army with both SM and AM tank commanders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Ish said:

So is this list just completely filthy "Imperial Soup" or a fun way to represent an Space Marine Siege Company? You make the call!

I don't like mixing Chapter Selections within one army, but there's no other way to get Sergeant Chronus in the list and the only model in the entire army that will be using the Chapter Tactic is the Techmarine on Bike. So I don't think there is too much cheese in this soup. 

Let me know what you think.

So...

This isn't soup or cheese in my opinion. Its mono codex space marines. So no soup. And except for maybe the hellblasters you dont have any competitive units (not that they are bad, just not optimized units).

Imperial Fists dont really bring a bunch to the list other than looking cool and being the siege masters in fluff. The ultramarines dont have Bobby G or any unit that really will benefit from their tactics that often. The trip vindicators is cool with the 3d3 mortal wounds strat.

Fluff wise I would just make em all ImpFist if you want a siege company. Ultramarines are ok, but really want Bobby G to shine. 

Honestly this a list you can bring anywhere at anytime and have a great game. Not so weak it'll just roll over , but not so powerful as to ruin somebody's day. A+

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ish said:

Well, they're Ultramarines mechanically, but I'd still be painting them yellow.

That's worse. I'd rather Imperial fists were clearly marked and ultramarines were clearly marked. Mechanically, they should be visually distinguishable if they represent different chapters with different rules. Makes half the army counts as. 

Sake argument, why do you even need chronus? He seems to be the entire reason for the ultramarines, and if you don't intend to paint them as ultramarines, there's no real reason field them as ultramarines. Plus, your Spearhead has 1 more HQ than is required and also has 1 more slot open for Heavies, so without any real changes to the list, you could swap chronus for a regular pred and make that spearhead imperial fists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mostly because Chronus gives his tank a permanent BS 2+ and lets it heal one Wound per Turn. Switching him for a regular Predator Annihilator in the same configuration would save me 30 Points... Which I could use to put H-K Missiles on the other five tanks, giving me either one hell of an Alpha Strike or the ability to plink a few extra Mortal Wounds throughout the game. 

++ Version II - Imperial Fisting Edition ++

++ Battalion Detachment +5 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [ 54 PL, 919 pts] ++
**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +
Primaris Captain w/Power Fist: Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Trait: Storm of Fire, Relic: The Armour Indomitus [ 92 pts ]
Primaris Lieutenants 1x Power Sword, 1x Master-Crafted Stalker Bolt Rifle [ 149 pts ]

+ Troops +
Intercessor Squad: 5x Stalker Bolt Rifles, 1x Auxiliary Grenade Launcher; Sergeant w/ Chainsword [ 85 pts ]
Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Chainsword [ 170 pts ]
Intercessor Squad: 10x Bolt Rifles, 2x Auxiliary Grenade Launchers; Sergeant w/ Power Fist [ 179 pts ]

+ Elites +
Primaris Ancient Bolt Rifle [ 69 pts ]

+ Heavy Support +
Hellblaster Squad: 5x Heavy Plasma Incinerators [ 175 pts ]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [56 PL, 980 pts] ++
**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +
Techmarine on Bike: Bolt Pistol, Power Axe, Servo-Arm, Twin Boltguns [ 77 pts ]

+ Heavy Support +
Predator: Twin Lascannon Turret, Pintle Storm Bolter, Lascannon Sponsons, Hunter-Killer Missile [ 188 pts ]
Predator: Predator Autocannon Turret, Pintle Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter-Killer Missile [ 158 pts ]
Predator: Predator Autocannon Turret, Pintle Storm Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Hunter-Killer Missile [ 158 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile  [ 133 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile  [ 133 pts ]
Vindicator: Pintle Storm Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile  [ 133 pts ]

++ Fortification Network Detachment +0 CP (Codex: Adeptus Astartes Space Marines) [4 PL, 100pts] ++
Aegis Defense Line: Icarus Lascannon  [ 100 pts ]

++ Total: [9 CP, 114 PL, 1999 pts] ++

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

That's worse. I'd rather Imperial fists were clearly marked and ultramarines were clearly marked. Mechanically, they should be visually distinguishable if they represent different chapters with different rules. Makes half the army counts as. 

Sake argument, why do you even need chronus? He seems to be the entire reason for the ultramarines, and if you don't intend to paint them as ultramarines, there's no real reason field them as ultramarines. Plus, your Spearhead has 1 more HQ than is required and also has 1 more slot open for Heavies, so without any real changes to the list, you could swap chronus for a regular pred and make that spearhead imperial fists.

All of my marines belong to the Swamp Don' Kies Chapter, hailing from Catachan volunteers. They are lead by Techmarine Gregory Sanchez, slayer of Baneblades. They often use chapter tactics from different Chapters and sometimes multiple chapter at the same time.

Basically I have a bunch of purple marines that I play as Raven Guard/Ultramarines/Deathwatch/Blood Angel's depending on the day. Most of the time using multiple chapter tactics in the same list.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I generally don't like the idea of having multiple Detachments where everyone is wearing the same uniform but using different rules. I feel a little less guilty about it with Version 1 of this list, simply because all the infantry were in one Detachment and all the vehicles were in the other... And Chapter Tactics only effects Infantry, Bikes, and Dreads. So effectively, only one model in the whole army actually had the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic.

On the other hand, Version 2 of this list is probably not really that much weaker -- and it's not like I have any delusions of being an AdeptiCon champion. But it is a heck of a lot simpler to explain to my opponents, tourney organizers, and so forth... It's a lot more friendly, basically. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway, no, it's not cheese or soup. 

I object to the fluff of calling it a siege company if it's actually multiple companies. I dislike the painting of multiple chapters as a single chapter.

But the other thing of it, is that by taking Chronus, you basically admit that your Imperial Fists aren't as good as the Ultramarines. No pride in your chapter? Why did you even pick Imperial Fists, if you didn't actually like their mechanical rules?

5 minutes ago, SPaceORK said:

All of my marines belong to the Swamp Don' Kies Chapter, hailing from Catachan volunteers. They are lead by Techmarine Gregory Sanchez, slayer of Baneblades. They often use chapter tactics from different Chapters and sometimes multiple chapter at the same time.

Basically I have a bunch of purple marines that I play as Raven Guard/Ultramarines/Deathwatch/Blood Angel's depending on the day.

No objection to custom chapters borrowing special characters or changing traits from game to game.

Does bother me when multple chapters in one list are represented by the same custom chapter, which I personally think violates the intentions of the game and isn't WYSIWYG. But I'd still play, it would just bug me. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

No objection to custom chapters borrowing special characters or changing traits from game to game.

Does bother me when multple chapters in one list are represented by the same custom chapter, which I personally think violates the intentions of the game and isn't WYSIWYG. But I'd still play, it would just bug me. 

 

Why? A chapter cant be adaptive to the environment they are going into? Well my stealthy long range guys should hide back here (Raven Guard) and my choppy guys should run forward and smash (Blood Angels). 

I'm pretty sure the intention of the game is to buy models and any justification to buy more models is ok with GW. The idea there is some noble, true way to play 40k is probably not what GW wants as it would turn a ton of people off to playing and ultimately buying more models.

Edit: I feel it may seem like I'm attacking you Pax. I'm not. Or at least I'm not trying to. I've just never understood why people take a game with rules then impose more unwritten rules.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Ish said:

I generally don't like the idea of having multiple Detachments where everyone is wearing the same uniform but using different rules. I feel a little less guilty about it with Version 1 of this list, simply because all the infantry were in one Detachment and all the vehicles were in the other... And Chapter Tactics only effects Infantry, Bikes, and Dreads. So effectively, only one model in the whole army actually had the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic.

On the other hand, Version 2 of this list is probably not really that much weaker -- and it's not like I have any delusions of being an AdeptiCon champion. But it is a heck of a lot simpler to explain to my opponents, tourney organizers, and so forth... It's a lot more friendly, basically. 

There are tons of ways to play this game. All them are valid and none of them invalidate the others. You dont need to feel guilty about playing your toy soldiers in any manner you see fit, as long as your not a total butthole and follow the rules as best you remember or know.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, SPaceORK said:

Why? A chapter cant be adaptive to the environment they are going into? Well my stealthy long range guys should hide back here (Raven Guard) and my choppy guys should run forward and smash (Blood Angels). 

I'm pretty sure the intention of the game is to buy models and any justification to buy more models is ok with GW. The idea there is some noble, true way to play 40k is probably not what GW wants as it would turn a ton of people off to playing and ultimately buying more models.

Edit: I feel it may seem like I'm attacking you Pax. I'm not. Or at least I'm not trying to. I've just never understood why people take a game with rules then impose more unwritten rules.

They are fair questions. GW's ruleset, this time around, does allow custom chapters, but doesn't encourage them mechanically.

RAW, custom chapters can't use special characters at all. As per the rules, your chapter is your chapter keyword. Since the special character lack the <CHAPTER> or "Swamp Don' Kies" chapter keyword, they can't be fielded. This does also apply to GW brand successor chapters. Nova Marines, for example, can't field Chronus. Just like how Crimson Fists can't field Lysander or any of the black templar special characters.

Custom chapters (and successor chapters) are given permission to use the chapter trait that best matches their founding, or, if the founding is unknown, to pick the one that best fits them.

Now if you ally the same chapter to itself, the keyword doesn't change, nor does your founding. Mechanically, both detachments would be the same chapter, which is "Swamp Don' Kies" so you'd still use whichever trait you picked because it best represented your custom chapter. It can't be both, it has to be which ever one is "best".

That's strict reading of GW rules.

That said, intentions wise, I don't think it matter if your imperial fists are yellow. Doesn't bother me if you want to make your Nova Marines count as Ultramarines, since denying them their special characters is kinda mean. Your custom chapter can count as a specific chapter if you want and you'd have full access to their special character and use their keyword.

So, within the strict rules, you can make a custom chapter use one trait of choice. "Counts as" could also be employed to use one chapter to represent another chapter in a mechanical capacity. But you push the limits of "counts as" when you have one thing represent multiple things. 

 

Beyond that, the chapter tactics don't just represent specialized training, it's a geneseed thing. They are pseudo clones of their founding primarch. Imperial fists don't just practice siege to get better at it, they are genetically focused on siege, mind and body.

 

Regarding the fielding of only the chapter's focused troops, the main issue is that it's unfluffy. Eldar do that, not space marines. Space marines are each amazing, with just slight leans towards other functions. Raven Guard have their own choppy guys, Blood Angels have their own long range units.

 

PS: Regarding the purchasing of models, I'd argue that it's much, much more expensive to have to buy entire duplicate armies and paint them differently, than it is to use the same models for everything...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

They are pseudo clones of their founding primarch. Imperial fists don't just practice siege to get better at it, they are genetically focused on siege, mind and body.

For the most part, Chapter Tactics are strictly a matter of culture and training, not geneseed. There are mutations in some geneseed lines, like the Canis Helix of Russ’ line or the non-functional omophagea of Dorn’s Line, that will affect the physical makeup of the Marines... But not tactical or strategic doctrine.

Hence, you see the great disparities between Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, and Black Templars. All First Founding chapters of Dorn’s lineage, but with very different doctrines. 

(I’m painting all my guys as Imperial Fists, Fifth and Eighth Companies. Plus maybe some Tenth Company Scouts.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ish said:

Hence, you see the great disparities between Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, and Black Templars. All First Founding chapters of Dorn’s lineage, but with very different doctrines. 

As the chaos player, I just see it as a corrupted geneseed that hasn't been detected as such...yet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyway, I wouldn't push any of that in a real game, it just bothers me, just me, when one chapter is supposed to be two.

You don't need to fix it just because it bugs me. Doesn't seem to matter to Tournament Organizers.

If you wanted to fix it, you could easily just have two different custom chapters. That would solve it. Could also have each chapter represented as the rules suggest, but it's your call.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Ish said:

Hence, you see the great disparities between Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, and Black Templars. All First Founding chapters of Dorn’s lineage, but with very different doctrines.

No, only imperial fists are a first founding chapter, the other two are second founding

Link to comment
Share on other sites

fiddling with battlescribe...You did say this was about liking tanks...


++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [114 PL, 1935pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +

Land Raider Excelsior [24 PL, 408pts]: Architect of War, Grav-cannon and grav-amp, The Armour Indomitus, 2x Twin lascannon, Warlord

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 85pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 150pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Heavy Bolters

Predator [9 PL, 150pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Heavy Bolters

Predator [9 PL, 150pts]: Predator autocannon, Two Heavy Bolters

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

+ Dedicated Transport +

Repulsor [16 PL, 266pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Auto Launchers, Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher, Las-talon, Twin heavy bolter

Repulsor [16 PL, 266pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Auto Launchers, Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Ironhail Heavy Stubber, 2x Krakstorm Grenade Launcher, Las-talon, Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [114 PL, 1935pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Ish said:

1935 Points? Think we can squeeze a Techmarine in there...?

I'm just fiddling with battlescribe to give you inspiration. There's probably a much better way of fielding that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even better, Siege Tank army


++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [62 PL, 934pts] ++

+ HQ +

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter
. Command Demolisher: Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter
. Command Demolisher: Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

Tank Commander [12 PL, 170pts]: Heavy Bolter
. Command Demolisher: Turret-mounted Demolisher Siege Cannon

+ Lord of War +

Shadowsword [26 PL, 424pts]: Twin heavy bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [60 PL, 1053pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +

Land Raider Excelsior [24 PL, 408pts]: Architect of War, Grav-cannon and grav-amp, The Armour Indomitus, 2x Twin lascannon, Warlord

+ Heavy Support +

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

Whirlwind [5 PL, 90pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

Whirlwind [5 PL, 90pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

Whirlwind [5 PL, 90pts]: Whirlwind vengeance launcher

++ Total: [122 PL, 1987pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, if I was going to use Imperial Guard, I wouldn’t bring any Space Marines at all. But I played an Armored Battlegroup for years and years, I don’t want to repeat that... Not without a significant boost to my household income anyway! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Ish said:

Well, if I was going to use Imperial Guard, I wouldn’t bring any Space Marines at all. But I played an Armored Battlegroup for years and years, I don’t want to repeat that... 

Then why this thread!?!?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...