Picked up an Infinity model at GG...

[Guest]

Picked up an infinity model at GG the other night (after not having anyone to play against all Sunday while at WOW). It was used, already assembled, and looked like it would be fun to paint. Not sure if I'll get into this game or not.

My understanding is that the model is a "Nomad GECKO." Not sure if I'll stick with this faction, or go with another.

Read the first 20-30 pages of the rulebook and concluded that skimming the rulebook would be fine, as most of the information seems to be situational to units and equipment that only might be in my little warband... In 40k terms, they crammed all the codexes for the game into the main rulebook and that's great in the respect the main rules directly explain how the codex interacts with the game, but it also means that the rulebook is *huge* and covers things you don't even have access to with your army, and might not even really need to know.

Given that my model (Gecko) is newly sold in a 2-pack, has a special rule for it being a fireteam duo, and the "free army builder" on the website lists a pilot...So the question I keep running into and can't really figure out, is if the Fireteam rules are optional..? Can I just field 1 Gecko? 

Unclear if I'm allowed to field them at all outside of a Sectorial army.

[Kremmet]

Here are my quick-fire answers to both your assumptions about the game and your specific questions. Hope you find it helpful!

1) Infinity is not a game you can just skim the rulebook and be fine. Besides rare equipment/rules such as Sepsitors, Nomads have access to everything in the game. In fact, most factions have access to 90%+ of the total rules/equipment available in at least a token way. Infinity is not like 40k where army identity is tied to reams of exclusive units and equipment, but instead the availability and combinations of those rules. While it's smart to stick to what you're fielding for now as Infinity is an incredibly complex game system, if you plan to stick around you'll need to know a lot more about how everything works than you would for a standard 40k army.

2) Fireteams are optional and (mostly) only available to sectorial armies. Sectorials are more like what the mini codeces for 40k were like back in 3rd ed in that they're subfactions within factions. In the case of Nomads, Nomads is the parent faction while Corregidor, Bakunin, and Tunguska are the sectorials. Sectorials are themed lists that limit your access to units in your faction and give you sectorials while the main factions are the overarching whole of the country. Long story short, you can field the Gecko in any army that the online army builder lets you choose it in and, even if that's in a sectorial, Fireteams are always optional.

3) Just as another note on sectorials, the only sectorial that can field the Gecko in Nomads is Corregidor. They are of course available in the main faction of Nomads if you choose to pass on playing a sectorial, though.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Kremmet said:

Here are my quick-fire answers to both your assumptions about the game and your specific questions. Hope you find it helpful!

1) Infinity is not a game you can just skim the rulebook and be fine. Besides rare equipment/rules such as Sepsitors, Nomads have access to everything in the game. In fact, most factions have access to 90%+ of the total rules/equipment available in at least a token way. Infinity is not like 40k where army identity is tied to reams of exclusive units and equipment, but instead the availability and combinations of those rules. While it's smart to stick to what you're fielding for now as Infinity is an incredibly complex game system, if you plan to stick around you'll need to know a lot more about how everything works than you would for a standard 40k army.

2) Fireteams are optional and (mostly) only available to sectorial armies. Sectorials are more like what the mini codeces for 40k were like back in 3rd ed in that they're subfactions within factions. In the case of Nomads, Nomads is the parent faction while Corregidor, Bakunin, and Tunguska are the sectorials. Sectorials are themed lists that limit your access to units in your faction and give you sectorials while the main factions are the overarching whole of the country. Long story short, you can field the Gecko in any army that the online army builder lets you choose it in and, even if that's in a sectorial, Fireteams are always optional.

3) Just as another note on sectorials, the only sectorial that can field the Gecko in Nomads is Corregidor. They are of course available in the main faction of Nomads if you choose to pass on playing a sectorial, though.

1) Yeah, I kinda said it wrong. I just mean that for learning the rules, initially, there's too much - reading the bits that matter to my force, and then learning the other bits later. It's not that the other bits aren't important too, it's just that there's way, way too much to learn all of it at once, so I need to prioritize. I just lack the capacity to sit there and read 200-300 pages of rules and memorize all of it - I'd get it eventually, but not in one read.

2) Thanks.

I keep running into things where the list builder lets me do it, but I can't find printed rules to back that up....So as long as the official infinity army builder allows is, it's legal? It lets me take Geckos in normal lists, the fireteam rules just confuse me the way they are worded - good to know they are optional.

3) I saw that one too. Someone was saying online that the Corregidor Sectorial isn't allowed in ITS events, though they didn't clarify why this was the case.

Beyond that, 2 model related questions:

4) Army builder assigns a pilot to the Gecko, but the kit doesn't actually come with a pilot. Am I supposed to buy a pilot separately? Or is the idea that the pilot's model is optional unless I want the pilot to leave the gecko? I'm fine either way, but would hate to show up to play and not have a complete model.

5) Is there supposed to be a model difference between the various ranks of model. Like does the Hellcat Lieutenant (Combi-Rifle) have a different model from the Hellcat (Combi-Rifle)? As far as I can tell, they don't make another model for this, but because I'm coming from 40k, I have to ask.

[Kremmet]

1) No problem and I get it. I was just pointing out that Infinity isn't like 40k in that--without knowing what the list you're playing is--I can't rule out the vast majority of equipment/special rules from being in the army as they're aren't faction locked in the same way. But yeah, figuring out what your army is and then practicing the basics of order of operations and what specific equipment does in your list is a good way to get started in most any game and especially in Infinity.

2) There's a button for list validation in the official army builder and, for the most part, it's correct. I haven't seen the validation ever be wrong, but I have seen the stats be off once or twice before getting corrected so that's something to be aware of (although the general way of figuring out what version is correct in Infinity is FAQ>wiki>army builder>army book).

Duo is especially confusing because it's one of the Fireteams that non-sectorial lists have access to, but only if they bring an EVO REM (remote) and spend one of their command points at the beginning of the game. It's super niche, but it's there.

3) That was someone either trying to be funny or trolling. There are no sectorials or armies that are on the army builder that are not allowed. There are formats that change what models are legal where, but that's a whole different thing and even then the sectorials on the army builder don't just go away. Corregidor is fully legal.

4) Pilots are a little weird as the models were added a fair bit after they started producing TAG models. Technically you need to purchase a separate model for pilots (which the Gecko has an official one if you'd like), but you only need one if you plan to get out of your TAG/if your opponent forces you out via hacking. Both of these are pretty niche practices as pilots leaving their TAGs make both models super vulnerable and disembarking tends to be a more advanced form of play. As for the hacking example, it's one example and widely considered a waste of resources in most circumstances--especially against small potatoes like a Gecko.

So, yeah, you technically should have a model that you can produce for the pilot of your TAG, but it won't be used very often. (Although most people collect the pilot models as they're some of the more interesting Infinity models and make for pretty cool HVTs when you're not bringing the TAG).

5) Infinity has an...interesting modeling policy. The game is both one where proper representation of your models is important for the clarity of the game state and one where to make every variation of unit type would be too limiting a factor for retailers and collectors so instead you can sorta use anything as anything. Granted, this is technically anything reasonable, but given how subjective that statement is it can get a little weird.

For the most part, people will expect you to use the model that matches the profile you're fielding if it exists (so WYSIWYG) and, if it doesn't, the best practice is to use the same type of model as what you want with a proper weapon swap to the profile you're fielding (e.g. chopping the Combi-rifle off of a Hellcat and replacing it with a Spitfire to represent a Hellcat with a Spitfire). When no model exists, people tend to either convert their own version or use the Spec-Ops models to represent them (Spec-Ops are any of the models in boxes marked Dire Foes or marked Spec-Ops).

That said, you don't need a special model to represent skill sets--just equipment. In your Lt. example, this would actually be frowned upon as who the Lt. is in a force is hidden information in almost all Infinity missions. You do not declare and should not visibly mark who your lieutenant is on the model as it removes some of the gameplay along with putting you at a sometimes-massive disadvantage.

 

[Guest]

 Pax Wants to play Super Space Marines List
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

8  
 GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
   GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
 GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
   GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
 GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
   GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
 GECKO Mk12, Chain-colt, Blitzen / . (0.5 | 54)
   GECKO PILOT 2 Assault Pistols, Knife. ()
 WILDCAT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 19)
 WILDCAT Engineer Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
 WILDCAT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)
 WILDCAT Heavy Rocket Launcher / Assault Pistol, Knife. (2 | 20)

 6 SWC | 298 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

[Guest]

Says it's legal....

[Exile]

16 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Says it's legal....

Well..... it is.  Infinity has a much looser army construction system than 40k.

1) You need a (one and only one) Lieutenant.

2) You get 1 SWC per 50 total points of Army (6/300).

3) If you wish to enroll a Remote, you must either first bring a TAG or a Hacker.

4) Follow AVA limits.

Go.

 

Your Super Speesh Marines list is legal, but extremely limited. Grab some Terminators, and some dudes on 25mm's, and proxy it.  Most Infinity games involve some form of Objective play, and in order to interact with that objective, you need to be a 'specialist'.  A Doctor, Engineer, Forward Observer, Hacker, Paramedic, Chain of Command, or Specialist Operative skill (i -might- be forgetting one). 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Exile said:

Well..... it is.  Infinity has a much looser army construction system than 40k.

1) You need a (one and only one) Lieutenant.

2) You get 1 SWC per 50 total points of Army (6/300).

3) If you wish to enroll a Remote, you must either first bring a TAG or a Hacker.

4) Follow AVA limits.

Go.

 

Your Super Speesh Marines list is legal, but extremely limited. Grab some Terminators, and some dudes on 25mm's, and proxy it.  Most Infinity games involve some form of Objective play, and in order to interact with that objective, you need to be a 'specialist'.  A Doctor, Engineer, Forward Observer, Hacker, Paramedic, Chain of Command, or Specialist Operative skill (i -might- be forgetting one). 

Interesting. With regards to the SWC, is the idea that I need to spend all of it, or is it perfectly viable to not use any of it?

Without a hacker, is the remote or TAG unit a liability? I know they can be hacked, but I'm unclear how realistic it is to hack things in the game.

[Exile]

You are not required to spend it all, but you will find yourself severely lacking in range past 16" if you choose not to spend any.

Without a Hacker or TAG you cannot take a remote at all.  Certain abilities of Hackers can buff remotes, disable remotes, tags or other hackers,  and a host of other things.

The TAG being a liability depends on a number of things.  Opponent force selection, table layout and terrain, mission objective, and others.  Hackers can innately hack things within their 8" bubble Area, but there are various ways to extend that through different kinds of Repeaters.

 

[Natetehaggresar]

SWC is a second set of points used to buy special equipment.

 

Generally swc is an extra tax on top of points that buys:

1. Long range and/or powerful guns

2. Hacking equipment

3. Other powerful equipment or is an extra tax on things that are rare (or rare in a faction for fluff/design reasons).

SWC costs prohibit you for example from fielding a list where everyone has a HMG.

 

You do not need to spend any swc, but in effect you are leaving points off the table. Generally advice is to spend most if not all your swc. If you're clocking in below 5 (especially in nomads, I would at least reconsider).

 

Infinity's mission system is very intense compared to other games. You actually have 3 opponents, the mission, the table, and finally the guy sitting across from you.

To that effect it's hard to build an all comers list as what you need to accomplish missions can vary dramatically. (Tournaments and leagues generally publish missions to be used in advance). You of course don't know the table or opponent in advance, but you can try to do things like include weapons with a variety of ranges to account for different tables.

 

Your list you posted might look intimidating, OMG lots of big stompy robots, but it isn't to an experienced player. Geckos can easily bully weak troops, they have a high armor to points and wounds ratio, but are noticably under gunned. Hackers and elite striker type models can mess them up, especially if the striker can engage at favorable terms, such as out ranging the MK12' 24 inches. (Active players burst advantage is very telling).

The list also generally is short on orders. As a rule of thumb you want at least 10 at 300 points. Less than that and you'll probably find yourself struggling to complete objectives and fight your opponent since both will drain your pool. (My preference is around 12-14, Peter likes to push it even higher) Also your pilots are specialist operatives so generally they can complete most mission requirements, but to do so they have to jump out of the tag, and the pilots themselves are pretty vulnerable.

[Guest]

Last question. How about Named Characters? Says I can take them, but are they taboo in social settings? Like they used to be in WHFB/40k? Should I steer clear of them, or does it not matter?

[Natetehaggresar]

Named characters are A okay.

 

[Sgt. Rock]

13 hours ago, Natetehaggresar said:

Infinity's mission system is very intense compared to other games. You actually have 3 opponents, the mission, the table, and finally the guy sitting across from you.

I would posit that Infinity brings a fourth opponent to the table: time. You only have three turns to accomplish your goals. I can't count the number of games I've played where if I'd only had one more turn I would have won. But that "one more turn" just isn't there. When building lists, it's important to consider the compressed timetable of the game, and make sure that you know what pieces need to be where doing what at what time. Specialist A needs to be at Objective X by the bottom of turn two. Striker Piece B needs to be in the midfield in suppressive fire by the bottom of one. When do I bring in my AD troops? Do you bust them out on turn one, when you've got orders to burn, or save them for a Hail Mary at the end of the game? It's very important in Infinity to understand the timing of the game. In 40k, you have 4 or 5+ turns to accomplish goals, rack up points, and just flat out decimate your opponent. With few exceptions, in Infinity, you are on that compressed timetable, and killing your opponent is usually only important insofar as it facilitates accomplishing the mission objectives, i.e., I need to take out that sniper so that my specialists can move up to the objectives safely. It can be VERY easy to get caught up in the bloodlust of trying to murder your opponent's doodz, but remember that every order you spend shooting at bad guys is one less order you can spend accomplishing objectives. You need to know when to fish or cut bait; sometimes, if you've spent the last 3 orders trying to root out that dug in target, maybe it's time to try a different tactic, because if you spend 6 or 8 orders trying to take a target down, you've hamstrung yourself for the objectives. 

[Guest]

I keep running into a barrier where I can't find a single faction where I want 10 models for it....I really love 1 or 2 models of just about every faction.

Found this site that has pictures of the models.

https://human-sphere.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Finding myself really liking some of the OOP versions of models. Ebay seems to have a lot of "extras" from prior editions. Any problem fielding out of production models?

 

Also, any faction over represented locally? Like how almost all the 40k players field space marines...Is any one faction overwhelmingly more popular?

 

[Natetehaggresar]

No I don't think anything is crazy over or under represented locally. I don't play at Ordo, but when ordo peeps show up to other events they seem to have a spread of things they bring. (Or when I show up to ORDO ones).

 

A local @thediceabide wrote this, it's pretty help for picking a faction.

https://www.thediceabide.com/blog/2018/8/3/infinity-which-faction-is-for-you

 

One thing to keep in mind is that very few rules are omitted for very few factions. It's not like 40k or Warmachine where each faction has a lot of unique rules. What makes things unique is how they are put together on different units. 

[Guest]

Okay, rules question I can't seem to find the answer to.

What is the advantage in having lots of weapons on a single model?

As I read it, it takes an entire order to fire just 1x weapon. Is the idea that I'm feeding all my orders into a single model model so they can fire all the weapons, or is the idea versatility? Or did I miss something. TAGs, in particular, seem to have a lot of weapons, but I'm not seeing any special rules regarding firing them. 

I'll admit to not having a very good grasp of the rules yet, so I probably just overlooked something. 

[Natetehaggresar]

Versatility is correct.

 

Having a machine gun that is good from 16 inches to 32, can be well supplemented by a heavy pistol good 0 to 8. You can pick the ideal weapon for the range.

 

Flame throwers and similar are also very useful for their versatility. Direct templates auto hit unless your opponent dodges. This makes them very powerful defensive weapons. Think about the structure of an order.

 

First short skill your opponent walks into lof to shoot your tag.

 

You declare an ARO shoot with a heavy flamer.

 

Your opponent can now waste their second short skill dodging or elect to trade shots with their weapons.

 

Tags have high arm and wounds so your flamer will likely kill any 1 wound trooper and unless they're packing serious firepower may not even dent the tag.

 

 

[Natetehaggresar]

Oh and since you were asking about geckos earlier.

If you have multiples OF THE SAME weapon you can dual weild during active turn only.

Dual wield adds plus 1 burst, so geckos have burst 4 combi rifles.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Natetehaggresar said:

Oh and since you were asking about geckos earlier.

If you have multiples OF THE SAME weapon you can dual weild during active turn only.

Dual wield adds plus 1 burst, so geckos have burst 4 combi rifles.

Thanks. I found dual weild as a skill, but I don't think I have any units with that skill.

 

[Guest]

Ah, found it. Twin Weapons....

[Guest]

Hmm...thinking about something like this:

 Combined Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

8  
 CHARONTID Lieutenant Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 73)
 M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
 RAICHO MULTI HMG + Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / . (2 | 94)
   RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
 T-DRONE Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
 HAIDUK Smart MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 23)
 MALIGNOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
 KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
 KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)

 6 SWC | 295 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

[thediceabide]

On 3/6/2019 at 11:19 AM, paxmiles said:

Hmm...thinking about something like this:

 Combined Army
──────────────────────────────────────────────────

8  
 CHARONTID Lieutenant Hacker (Hacking Device Plus) Plasma Rifle, Nanopulser / Heavy Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 73)
 M-DRONE Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
 RAICHO MULTI HMG + Heavy Shotgun, Mine Dispenser / . (2 | 94)
   RAICHO PILOT 2 Heavy Pistols, D-Charges, Knife. ()
 T-DRONE Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
 HAIDUK Smart MULTI Sniper Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 23)
 MALIGNOS (Forward Observer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 36)
 KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
 KURGAT (Operative Group) Boarding Shotgun, D-Charges, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)

 6 SWC | 295 Points

Open in Infinity Army

 

I love your enthusiasm Paxmiles, but I would very much recommend playing a few games before diving in (though if you have the hankering to assemble minis, you can’t go wrong with a starter pack). The common wisdom with list building is that you want 10 orders worth, or 14+. If you think of orders as the resources needed to punch faces and score objectives with, then a list which has only 8 is going to have a very difficult time doing either.

If you are interested in Combined, I have a large number of them and would be happy to teach you to play. I’m down in Sherwood and we play are Glimpses of Wonder on Thursdays. Alternatively I’m sure @Raindog would be happy to teach you at Ordo on Sundays, or @WiseKensai at Portland Game Store on Mondays.

[WiseKensai]

Yep. I'm trying to keep a closer eye on these forums (I generally check when I remember, which until recently, wasn't a lot).

Hit me up to schedule a demo game on a Monday sometime. I generally don't drive out (I'm in the suburbs) unless I have a scheduled opponent, so I'm not guaranteed to be there every Monday.