TK movement and magic in Undead army

[Brother Glacius]

So I've been reading up on the TK stuff, and I wanted to run this buy everyone. TK can now march if within 12" of the general. That is fairly clear. Now lets look at the signature spell for TK, Incantation of Desert Wind.

 

It states: "targets can make a normal move as if in the Remaining Moves sub-phase."

 

Well marching takes place in the remaining moves sub-phase. So does this spell now allow all undead units to march in the magic phase in addition to the move they could make in the normal phase (granted that they are withing 12" of the general)?

 

Previously, this was prevented by the fact that TK could never march. But that is now gone. And of course, VC units can now benefit from these spells.

 

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading more into it. Or does the phrase "normal move" remove marching?

[HeroZero]

Yes. Undead are now the fastest army when magic buffed.

A speed 7 unit can be in opponentss deployment zone turn 1.

[HeroZero]

Normal just means no special things like hexwraith ride throughs etc.

[rudra34]

Normal means no hexwraith ride-through since when?  Unless otherwise mentioned, a hexwraith unit moving through another unit to inflict damage seems like a normal move from the remaining moves sub-phase to me. 

[Brother Glacius]

I have to agree with rudra, there doesn't seem to be anything restricting the move.

[AgentP]

I agree with Rudra.  With magic movements buffs, undead are scary fast on first turn.  But of course they may quickly get out of general range

[MexicanNinja]

Normal just means no special things like hexwraith ride throughs etc.

That happens during the remaining moves.  So, yes, you may march a unit of hexwraiths through a unit in the movement phase and then do it again once this spell is cast.

[HeroZero]

Thought it was special movement. Guess not.

[HeroZero]

I agree with Rudra. With magic movements buffs, undead are scary fast on first turn. But of course they may quickly get out of general range

 

Who cares about out of general (although he's likely in the turbo bus) once you are there you are there.

[McNathanson]

"Turbo Bus" haha!  HeroZero you just ruined the imagery I had previously, of the mighty Tomb Kings host gliding across the battlefield at unnatural speeds (akin to the Shadow Host in the Two Towers), and replaced it with a bunch of skellies hopping on the Harry Potter Knight Bus!  Curses!! :)

[HeroZero]

Vrroom vrroom... Next stop your opponents deployment zone.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Vrroom vrroom... Next stop your opponents deployment zone.

If you deploy right the Undead army is in your front rank, at least an inch away, but then you get to easily,charge them. A march is still just a march. (Though it is still extremely useful.)

[HeroZero]

And if you do it right with undead who charges doesn't matter much, because always cheats first..

Changing the charge bonus was a mistake, it skewed combatants too badly.

[Threejacks]

That happens during the remaining moves.  So, yes, you may march a unit of hexwraiths through a unit in the movement phase and then do it again once this spell is cast.

Since I will be running Hexwraiths I imagine ill be feeling guilty about doing that,seems pretty cheesy...

[Drak]

it's not cheesy, it's how they were designed to be played. hexwraiths get their value in the moving and magic phase. once you get them in combat they die to CR like crazy. an you are limited to the damage effect of going through units to once per unit per phase.

[Threejacks]

it's not cheesy, it's how they were designed to be played. hexwraiths get their value in the moving and magic phase. once you get them in combat they die to CR like crazy. an you are limited to the damage effect of going through units to once per unit per phase.

I`ve only been on the receiving end of Hexwraiths,actually yours during one battle,lol...but now that i`m building an UL army of my own I was planning to use 2 groups of 5 of these and I just don't want to come off like a douche,lol.

 

I suppose its not a given that it could be done all that reliably early in the game as the priest is gonna need to be rather close unless of course hes mounted and riding with them.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

it's not cheesy, it's how they were designed to be played. hexwraiths get their value in the moving and magic phase. once you get them in combat they die to CR like crazy. an you are limited to the damage effect of going through units to once per unit per phase.

True but at the same time they are fast cav that ignores everything when moving. If you don't charge a unit your opponent will never catch them. So the only way to remove them is by magic as they run free from harm. (Fast Cav is almost never worth chasing because with free reform they can always get out of the charge arch and since the Hexwraiths ignore everything they don't even need to follow the mild limitations of other fast cav. They are that good or players wouldn't be taking them as much.)

 

Swedish comped out at -13 for 5 Hex Wraiths when Dark Riders tricked out are only -6 and Wild Riders are -9 tricked out and they are considered one of the best basic fast cav. Not including the brutal Warlocks because they are a rare choice.

 

Mind you I am not saying VC players shouldn't take them just saying down playing them is not doing them justice. (I've felt their icy grip and had a lot of DE die horribly when they ran amock.)

 

Also all fast cav dies when they get into combat with Rank and File, yours just dies to CR instead of attacks.

[Drak]

ML I agree that hexwraiths are powerful, my intent was to clarify that using hexwraith as they are intended isn't "cheesy" and to point out that they only benefit from their drive-through ability Once per unit per phase so the TK spell/effect that allows additional movement doesn't grant hexwraiths damage each time it's caste in a phase. no spam drive throughs.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

ML I agree that hexwraiths are powerful, my intent was to clarify that using hexwraith as they are intended isn't "cheesy" and to point out that they only benefit from their drive-through ability Once per unit per phase so the TK spell/effect that allows additional movement doesn't grant hexwraiths damage each time it's caste in a phase. no spam drive throughs.

Got it, because I thought you were trying to under sell them. But yes, thank Sigmar no spam drive throughs.

[MexicanNinja]

ML, yes, they are fast cav; however they can't march outside of the general bubble.  So, they really only get the one turn of excellent movement.  Hexwraiths aren't that great in melee either.  I've played VC using hexwraiths and I've played against hexwraiths.  They're hit or miss.  They're really only good at running through other chaff units.

[rudra34]

Their heavy comp value no doubt comes from being ethereal, not their combat ability.  Imagine if wild riders WERE an ethereal unit, they would be about -8 per model!

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Their heavy comp value no doubt comes from being ethereal, not their combat ability. Imagine if wild riders WERE an ethereal unit, they would be about -8 per model!

Hmmm...They were for about a month at Game Night, weren't they?

 

I also understand their combat abilities are not great but I was saying they could just run around all game harassing your army. They won't harm a Rank and File unit much but lone characters, fast cav and warmachines have a lot to fear from them. They are fantastic hunters.

[MexicanNinja]

If you have fast cav or lone characters who are being threatened by them then just move them out of range.  If you don't want them to run through you during the magic phase then save your dispel dice to stop macabre.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

If you have fast cav or lone characters who are being threatened by them then just move them out of range.  If you don't want them to run through you during the magic phase then save your dispel dice to stop macabre.

Honestly I think this got taken out of tone, I am not saying they are my bane I am just saying they are good. But I also am bringing a shaman and a magical weapon at this low points for this situation.

[MexicanNinja]

Honestly I think this got taken out of tone, I am not saying they are my bane I am just saying they are good. But I also am bringing a shaman and a magical weapon at this low points for this situation.

Their you go.  That's the main thing.  When building a list you need to make sure you have a way to deal with every situation or be willing to accept the consequences in games when you don't have the right tool.