Pax's Imperial Army (expanded topic from minotaur/exorcist thread)

[Guest]

Minotaurs (BT)

Chaplain (TDA, Combi-Melta)

Assault Centurions (3, Hurricanes and Flamers)

Command Squad (5, 4x SS+Flamer, 1x apothecary)

-Dedicated Drop Pod

SR (Typhoon/Las)

 

Grey Knights

Captain Stern

 

Astra Millitarum

Shadowsword (Both sets of sponsons and hull mount, Heavy flamers and lascannons)

 

Total 1500pts..

Got a chance to use it. Opponent was Jesse, who had BA without legit AT solutions, and that quake cannon building without void shields.

 

Game was sort of a flop, as his list was really poorly matched against mine. Mission was relic.

 

Anywho, super heavy deployed on the table. Stern joined command in pod, chappy joined assault cents in SR. Opponent deployed with two sets of assault marines near/on the building, plus a gutsy scout squad using scout move towards the objective. He had another scout squad outflanking, and an Assault TDA unit in DS reserve.

 

My superheavy directed fire at the scouts while moving to avoid shots via the building. Night fighting turn 1 meant 4+ cover for my vehicle if concealed. Later in the game, more scouts arrived and the TDA unit, which assaulted the super heavy and successfully knocked 7 HP off it before the game ended.

 

Pod squad arrived a point blank. Stern successfully cast sanctuary and got warp surge perils. Flamers removed half an assault squad. On opponent's he charged, losing another three members to flamer overwatch. His assault ended up being just the squad sergeant and his BA captain. The BA captain was durable, so, we got a round of that, then he joined the second assault in, just as the first one was destroyed.

 

SR arrived. A turn later, it dropped centurions via hover mode. Centurions got ready to assault, but the stupid chappy collapsed the building with his combi-melta before they got a chance to assault it. Turn after, they joined Stern's assault party and wiped them out in a single round. They went on to destroy the other building. SR went to fly mode and harassed enemy TDA unit.

 

Game ended when we decided to call it. Opponent had two models left, one assault marine and a single TDA model with SS/TH. I lost the command squad, but everything else was undamaged. Final score with 3:2, my 3 being the secondary objectives, and his 2 being for the 7 hull points removed from my lord of war. I would have wiped him if given another turn. No one held the relic, though my opponent was the only one to try (scouts).

[Guest]

Okay, so learning from the above.

 

Flamers were practical on the shadow sword. Deal is that if opponent get's too close, the lack of turret makes it very hard to attack with the main weapon. Need to model on the hull flamer. Lascannons are iffy, might replace one set with that BS increase. Not sure if the loss of two lascannons justifies the BS 4 for the remaining two lascannons and the main weapon. That said, I did scatter 4" off target with every shot from the main weapon (kept rolling 7s, which is average)

 

Flamers on the command squad were wonderful. Squad needs more offensive punch, but the flamers and SS and sanctuary is a wonderful combination. Apothecary was also a good call. I may want to consider adding another character to the unit, something cheap with an invulnerable.

 

As for Stern, I do like him, but I may look into other options too.

 

Assault centurions in the SR really pull their weight. Being able to pick your target is the key, as their lack of invulnerable is easily dismissed by being able to pick your target via the SR assault vehicle.

 

SR itself, is doing just fine, though it really doesn't pull it's own weight. I've been rolling well below average, leading me to suspect a neophyte (scout) is piloting it...

 

Chappy works fine, though I don't think any of his upgrades are needed with that assault centurion unit.

 

Overall, I think I've been getting lucky, as my army is really small and I've not been taking the damage I expected to take.

[Guest]

Next week is 1750pts.

 

Hmm...with the lean towards flamers, I'll look into Salamander chapter tactics when playing in a non-FW setting. Would also let me take a libby.

 

Huh..looks like a level 1 libby with shield eternal is cheaper than my chappy in TDA. Not exactly an optimized use for that shield, but attached to that command squad, the 3++ would matter.

 

Still no real solution to those invisible thunderwolves, though I suppose the 2++ and FNP is a good start.

 

One possible change would be to swap stern for a Grandmaster GK character. Drawback is I'm switching to a random psychic power system, meaning that I wouldn't be certain to get sanctuary each game. 3++ is still viable, but might not be as much so. Grandmaster is same level 2 and cost as Stern, but has a better profile. Notably, I'd be able to swap the sword that stern uses for a remarkably cheap daemon hammer. I could also add an incinerator, though this is getting very spendy.

 

Other Stern swap would be for a GK techmarine. This one doesn't get any stock power rolls, but I can add a cheap "relic" to get a single roll. GK techmarine is very weak, but neat thing here is that without any terminators, my unit could preform sweeping advances. Sweeping advances might not seem like a big deal, but it can be very helpful.

 

I do need to get some objective secured units, I think.

 

Anyway, probably not field that super heavy again, any time soon, just wanted to try it. Unbound will also likely be ditched, though I'll note that it wasn't broken and I didn't find any issues using those rules. Very simple.

 

I think I'm getting close to a stable build that would allow me to finish painting it and get to work on another army (CSM are next, I think).

[Guest]

Okay 1750pts and the 2k list for GG escalation this month:

 

1750pts

 

GK CAD

 

HQ

Stern

 

Elites

GK Dread (MM/Fist)

 

Troops

GK Terminators (5, Falchions, Incinerator)

GK Terminators (5, Falchions, Incinerator)

 

Heavy

Dreadknight (Heavy Psycannon)

Dreadknight (Heavy Psycannon)

 

Fortification

Promethium Relay Pipes

 

Minotaurs (Salamanders) CAD

 

HQ

Librarian (Force Axe, Shield Eternal, Melta Bomb)

 

Non-Slot HQ

Command Squad (4 vets with flamer+SS, Apothecary)

-Dedicated Drop Pod

 

Troops

Scout Marines (5, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bomb)

Scout Marines (5, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bomb)

 

Heavy

SR (MM/Las)

 

Total: 1750

 

2k is as above, but GK dread is dropped for both of the following:

 

Elites (Minotaurs)

Assault Centurions (3, Flamer+Hurricanes)

 

Fast (GK)

GK Interceptors (5, Daemonhammers)

 

New total is 1995pts.

 

EDIT: Salamander chapter tactics to make scout plas pistols master crafted, as well as an assault drill for the centurion sergeant, Bolt pistol for the apothecary, and the force axe for the librarian.

[Guest]

In the above, SR has missiles modeled on for typhoon, though I still haven't modeled the stormstrike missiles, so I don't think it would be a huge issue to have the typhoon count as the stormstrike. Hadn't really considered this option before.

 

List above leans towards anti-infantry, but it should still have enough punch to hinder other armies. AV14 will be tricky at the 1750 level, unless I can make melee. I do like the list, and it certainly looks strong.

[Guest]

Minor updates, Got a Gundam model kit. This one is "MS 06 Zaku II"

 

Wonderful kit, really is. Good instructions too, despite not being in english.

 

Plan is to use this one, and a second, as my Dreadknight. I'll be modifying the rifle-like weapon into a giant bolter (heavy psycannon). Not sure regarding other conversions. In terms of size, this one is a taller, though I'm working on making it closer to the right size. Really looks awesome. Can't wait for the rain to stop so I can prime it.

[Guest]

Enkomi and Moloc arrived today via FW. Both kits are complete and unwarped. Moloc included two identical right arms for unclear reasons (an extra, perhaps?).

 

Anyway, closer look at the models gives me pause. Both are awesome models.

 

Seems like I could model Moloc to be a generic TDA character with SS and another weapon without much effort, given the duplicate arms. Model is built where alternate arms are very feasible, though his head, torso and legs are in that fixed pose.

 

Enkomi is a beautiful model, more so on his torso. Unfortunately, the way the model is built, most of that torso will be concealed. I'm very tempted to convert the model so more of that torso is exposed. It would require sawing, but it looks like I could remodel him to be with power fist and a single handed Crozius Arcanum without tremendous effort. Unlike Moloc, Enkomi's head is a separate piece. He also has a cloak/backpack bit, so the idea of adding a jump pack remains an option without modifying an pieces.

 

In both cases, modifying the model a bit so it can be used without FW rules is very appealing. I hate having models that can't be used.

[Guest]

Got another game in. My list was based on the understanding that it was a learning game. Opponent, on the other hand, brought models with the understanding of building a meaner list. A bit of miscommunication here. It didn't help that both of us were very tired.

 

Game was 1k and I deliberately left at home my mean units. Opponent brought a Dimachaeron, which given it's page of special rules, is not really a learning game unit. It didn't help that he kept calling it a malanthope...That one Dimachaeron massacred my army, though I don't really feel too bad on that point, as I really didn't have any mean units, so the loss wasn't really related to bad playing. The rest of his army did basically nothing all game. Highly underwhelming army with one amazing model.

 

My army was Minotaurs and GK. Got a chance to test a 10-man GK term unit with incinerators and all falchions. Definitely need to field those promethium pipes if I want to run those incinerators. Pure falchions was lacking. I've been suspecting this, but models aren't finished so proxies make mixed weapons difficult. Probably switch to only the justicar with the falchions, swords and hammers. I could also look into the staff option, as GK are able to hammer hand it, so it could certainly have merit in some games.

[Guest]

Need more paint brushes....

 

I think I'm going to tweak the Enkomi Model so he's weilding a fist and 1-handed Crozious arcanum. Should show off the chest more and makes him easier to use in non-FW settings.

 

Moloc is going to get a magnetized weapon arm, so he can have his black spear or a chainfist (Ork Kan "Drill" DCCW). He'd be fieldable as either Moloc, or a generic chapter master with TDA, shield eternal and chainfist (same cost for both versions).

 

EDIT: Oh, looking into SM hunters. 1 or 2 may get squezed into this army.

[Guest]

Game tonight. Been awhile. GG league, 1900pts.

 

SM CAD

Ultramarine Chapter tactics

HQ & Warlord Chappy (Fist)

-Command Squad (5, apothecary, 4x vets with storm shield and melta gun)

--Drop pod

Elites Assault Centurions (3, Hurricanes+Flamers)

-Land Raider

Troop Tactical Squad (5, Lascannon)

-Razorback (TL Assault cannon)

Troop Tactical Squad (5, Lascannon)

-Razorback (TL heavy bolter)

Heavy Hunter (Chronus, HK, Storm bolter)

Fort Promethium relay pipes

 

Allied GK

HQ stern

Troops GK terms (5, Flachions, incinerator)

-Land Raider

 

Total 1900

[pretre]

What're the pipes for? You don't have a lot of flamers.

[generalripphook]

more use of the assult centurions flamers I'd assume. They camp there and counter assault? 

[Guest]

Opponent was ridiculous.

 

3 imperial knights in lance formation (1 melta, 2 others)

1 of each assassin (4, with near identical models, all painted red)

and a tempestus Scions Commisaar+squad.

 

I lost, got destroyed. Destroyed one knight, 4 HP off a second, third undamage. Vindicare hid all game (out of TLOS) after failing to pen a land raider turn 1. Culexus got killed by HB razorback. Callidus killed 4 tactical marines. Eversor killed 2 terminators. Scions killed a single tactical marine. Surviving Knights destroyed everything else.

 

My army rolled bad when it mattered. Drop pod scattered 10" to land in front of the Knights (instead of behind, leaving the opponent forced to choose facing to shield). Centurions underpreformed, they should have statistically been able to destroy the second knight (2 HP remaining). 

 

My take away: I'm sure Glad I knew my opponent's rules. Constantly had to correct him about rather major rules regarding Super Heavy Walkers and various other abilities. For example, he determined that super heavy explosions were 5" radius from the base for D strength....Yeah, really glad I know those rules. In return, opponent made comments about me being knitpicky. To be fair, I am anal about the rules, but I really needed to be this game. 

What're the pipes for? You don't have a lot of flamers.

 

Basically, my [imperial] armies tend to be AT heavy, but suffer against hordes. The pipes give me an extra turn of flames if I face an opponent where them coming to me is needed for victory. Typical application is for the GK Terminators, as it effectively gives them a Heavy Incinerator and the 4+ cover really boosts their save against low AP shooting. Centurions can use it too, if I really need it. This was my first game actually fielding it with a model.

 

In this game, it functioned as an aegis line for a tactical squad lascannon team

[Jayne_Cobbb]

What are the pipes?

[pretre]

What are the pipes?

Promethium pipes are a fort that let you torrent your flamers over them.

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

And possibly blow up in you if you make your cover save

[Guest]

What are the pipes?

10pt cheaper Aegis Line without access to the communication relay, quad or icarus upgrades. Also doesn't improve cover save by 2 when going to ground.

 

That said, flamer weapons (BRB flamer weapon group, not just those S4 ap5 flamers) can gain the torrent+heavy rules if fired from within a few inches. Vehicles unfortunately can't use this flamer upgrade (they can still take the cover saves).

 

Drawback is that cover saves on 6s cause d6 s4 ap5 cover ignoring hits to the unit that took the 4+ cover save from the pipes. This drawback sounds bad, but it only applies when you use the cover from pipes, so if you have armor or invulnerables or cover from other sources, the save doesn't cause extra hits.

 

This makes them pretty solid defenses for marines in power armor or terminator armor, but not very practical for camo scouts or imperial guard.

 

For vehicles, hits are resolved against the facing nearest to the pipes, so rhinos and chimeras are unharmed when facing the pipes, but land speeders and ork trukks are in danger. They still require the 25% concealment.

[Guest]

And possibly blow up in you if you make your cover save

As above, not really a threat for terminators or centurions, as only COVER saves are affected. So if the 2+ armor is denied, we'd gain a 4+ cover which if passed on a 6, does d6 s4 non-armor save denying hits.

[Guest]

Anyway, unit by unit evaluation:

 

In general, first game in years that I wished I brought more anti-tank.

 

Stern+Command Pod Squad. Remained disturbingly durable, but they didn't cut it offensively. Very tempted to remove Stern. Lately, I've been steering away from special characters.

 

GK terminators. I should probably get them a daemon hammer or so. Was thinking I had enough AT, but looks like more couldn't hurt.

 

Ultra Marine Chapter Tactics. Not for mech lists....yeah, biggest issue was that most of my units didn't benefit from the UM chapter tactics. I took them for chronus, just for fun. I'd be using the FW minotaurs chapter tactics, but GG banned FW rules, so I can't.

 

Power Fist Chappy. Took him with fist because the Minotaurs special character Chappy has a fist, so I figured the same model would do. That was a mistake. Never got to swing, died at Initiative step 4...To be fair, we intentionally charged two knights and did 6 HP of damage in that single initiative step 4 with 305pts worth of models (not including the land raider transport).

 

Centurions did fine. They did under preform, but they did do their intended role.

 

Tactical Lascannon teams. Normally I bring scouts, but UM tactics have a boost for tactical hit rolls, so why not. They never missed all game. Mind you, 4++ re-rolling invulnerable saves are very annoying, but we did get a few HP via these.

 

Razorbacks. They preformed as well as they ever do. No complaints.

 

Hunter. HK missile failed to glance, skyspear missed all game. Ignoring stunned and shaken was helpful, but the vehicle was not. Whole bit was a waste in this game against this opponent.

 

Land Raiders were extremely lacking against this opponent. They held up better than most other things would, but they really didn't contribute much given how easy it was for the opponent to penetrate with shooting attacks.

 

Pipes. As helpful as an aegis line would have been.

[Aventine]

Ultra Marine Chapter Tactics. Not for mech lists....yeah, biggest issue was that most of my units didn't benefit from the UM chapter tactics. I took them for chronus, just for fun. I'd be using the FW minotaurs chapter tactics, but GG banned FW rules, so I can't.

 

I thought they were allowing just the Chapter Tactics?

[Guest]

Not anymore. Joel decided on a flat ban sometime around the start of the new year. Official policy is to ban FW rules and units because GG doesn't sell them in-store.

 

The irony is that codex Inquisition, amongst others, represents a set of rules that GG doesn't sell and features models that GG doesn't sell. Technically, this makes them no different from FW, at least with regards to GG's ban. GG allows codex inquisition anyway.

[pretre]

Wacky.

[Aventine]

Not anymore. Joel decided on a flat ban sometime around the start of the new year. Official policy is to ban FW rules and units because GG doesn't sell them in-store.

 

The irony is that codex Inquisition, amongst others, represents a set of rules that GG doesn't sell and features models that GG doesn't sell. Technically, this makes them no different from FW, at least with regards to GG's ban. GG allows codex inquisition anyway.

That's crazy, since from that standpoint, all the rules for the Chapter tactics are free online, and they do sell the Space Marine models you'd need to use it!

[fluger]

Eh, it's a justification for banning FW that some people don't want included anyway.  

 

*shrugs*

[pretre]

I think what probably happen is someone was bitching to Joel about FW and he didn't want to deal with them bitching. That's my guess.