pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The idea is to take a TAC list that can also handle Tyrants, Pax. Land Raiders are not that list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The idea is to take a TAC list that can also handle Tyrants, Pax. Land Raiders are not that list. TAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Take All Comers. A list that you can play against any opponent without requiring tailoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Take All Comers. A list that you can play against any opponent without requiring tailoring. Wait, why is the land raider not in that list? They are very much all comers vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psilence Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Take all comers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Wait, why is the land raider not in that list? They are very much all comers vehicles. Not sure if serious... What's your TAC list with Land Raiders? You need to be able to handle all of the top lists with said Land Raider list, including the 3+ Tyrant List, Drop Pods, Adamantine Lance, Centurion-Star, Eldar, Taudar, Tau, etc so on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Not sure if serious... What's your TAC list with Land Raiders? You need to be able to handle all of the top lists with said Land Raider list, including the 3+ Tyrant List, Drop Pods, Adamantine Lance, Centurion-Star, Eldar, Taudar, Tau, etc so on. By TAC list, the idea is a super compeditive all comers, or just the list you bring against all opponents? I don't exactly tailor any of my armies for a specific opponent. Sometimes I'll tailor for learning games, but that's it. Either way, idea is to cope with the above armies, huh? And the idea is that a TAC list can be made from purely codex DA against those? I was under the impression that the OP just wanted anti-flyer advice, not how to beat every army with just one army. Anyway, I bring a land raider in almost every list. If not a land raider, then a SR or building or LR-like super heavy. AV14 is a strong counter to flyrants. That was my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 By TAC list, the idea is a super compeditive all comers, or just the list you bring against all opponents? I don't exactly tailor any of my armies for a specific opponent. Sometimes I'll tailor for learning games, but that's it. Either way, idea is to cope with the above armies, huh? And the idea is that a TAC list can be made from purely codex DA against those? I was under the impression that the OP just wanted anti-flyer advice, not how to beat every army with just one army. Anyway, I bring a land raider in almost every list. If not a land raider, then a SR or building or LR-like super heavy. AV14 is a strong counter to flyrants. That was my point. A TAC list is one that is valid against all opponents. I.e. you would not need to change it against anyone and have a fair chance of winning. The OP did want anti-flyer advice. Land Raiders aren't super AF advice. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadwing34 Posted January 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My main thing was finding a unit that was versitle enough to handle flyers and not be wasted points when there are no flyers. I guess my ultimate goal would be able to create a TAC balanced non "star" type list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 My main thing was finding a unit that was versitle enough to handle flyers and not be wasted points when there are no flyers. I guess my ultimate goal would be able to create a TAC balanced non "star" type list. Stormwolves definitely fit that bill. Also, the wacky BA triple flyer one is amusing, although that's a pretty big point sink. The Mortis Dreads fit DA best though (FW though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 The OP did want anti-flyer advice. Land Raiders aren't super AF advice. Then you misread. Best solution to flyrants is melee units in land raiders/buildings. I said landraiders/buildings and it's specific to flying MCs which cannot dent AV 14 at range. The Firestorm Redoubt, in example, is a great option to cope with flyrants. It is AV14. You can hide a melee unit inside and force them to land in order to do any real damage. Land Raiders do work well against flyers. I have much experience here. Deal is that most flyers cannot harm them, or can only do so with extremely lucky rolls. Those skyhammer storm talons you recommended, in example, are relying on rending to do any damage to AV14. I will add that the LR heavy bolter/assault cannon actaully has a 360 fire arc if firing at flying targets because the actual weapon can rotate 360 degrees (page 74 BRB), though it cannot fire at ground targets behind due to the weapon's LOS being blocked by the hull. Between machine spirit and a twin-linked volume fire weapon, you can actually hit flyers with those weapons. Not reliable AA weapons, but they work reasonably well, especially against the lighter AV flyers and flying MCs. Again, the goal is merely to force jink or grounding tests. I don't need to destroy a flyer that cannot hurt me, just impair it. Anyway, my focus with flyers isn't to outright destroy them, but to make it so they can be ignored. This does work. I haven't found flyers to be a huge threat in most games. They are a threat that can be dealt with by just forcing the jink or making those flying MCs land. If FW is allowed. The LR helios (with hyperios), despite the steep cost, is an ideal TAC unit. Skyfire+Interceptor on a krak missile, PotMS on two TL lascannons, and a transport capacity on an assault vehicle. On a side note, if your DA are running troop terminators, you can get an objective secured land raider (dedicated). This will really annoy tryanid opponents. You can just tank shock your way to objectives and it means that their non-MC units have very few methods of taking the objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Then you misread. You didn't quote the smiley. My comment was TIC (Tongue in Cheek). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 You didn't quote the smiley. My comment was TIC (Tongue in Cheek). :) Is that what the smiley means? Then yeah, guess you didn't misread. My mistake. I will add that non-FW Landraiders are worthless against most AV12 flyers, with the exception of the helldrake, as they really just laugh at those. Vendettas, SRs and those SW flyers are legit threats against my LRs. DA can counter to a certain extent with Power field generators and deathwing vehicles, but only to outlast them. You can get lucky TL lascannon shots, as I have certainly destroyed SRs and vendettas with snapping TL lascannons. Again, ignore the math and just roll a 6... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Flyrants should always have the haywire template. 3+ of them in a game don't care at all about a LR. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 Flyrants should always have the haywire template. 3+ of them in a game don't care at all about a LR. Case and point why you should force them to jink. You can't snap a template.... On a side note, min cost on said flyrant is 210pts. If you need 3+ to threaten a single LR, it's doing it's job by soaking up the fire of 630pts+ in models for a single turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2015 Report Share Posted January 20, 2015 But how am I supposed to snap fire flyers to death with only 2 rolls and not 4? If the flyer is really threatening you, you shoot them with everything. A tactical squad of 10 fires the heavy weapon, the special weapon, lobs a krak grenade and maybe a sarge pistol/combi, and then you have 6 bolters. No, it probably won't destroy a flyer like this, but you spam enough units at flyers and you will start getting hits and wounds/glances/pens. Remember that most of the non-SM flyers have weak rear armor, so if your army is spread out right, you can sometimes get rear shots. Helldrakes, in example, have rear AV10 while their front and side are AV12. Vendettas are like this too. Bolters can glance these to death. It is unlikely, but it can be done if you really need that flyer destroyed. This requires positioning your models to shoot the flyer in the ass when it turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The fly rants don't need to kill your land raider. They fly around and kill everything else. Once the rest is dead, maybe they get bored and kill your LR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappy Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 The fly rants don't need to kill your land raider. They fly around and kill everything else. Once the rest is dead, maybe they get bored and kill your LR.This. This right here Pax. Nobody is going to fight your Land Raider on your terms. We will ignore it. Kill my Termagants!? Great. Go ahead. A flyrant's job is not to get into hand to hand. Ever. It's sole purpose is to fly around and shoot things. If it is landing and smashing things, then things have gone horribly wrong for the bug player. As for flyers, I take none. To me, they are more gimmick than thrue threat. Give me more bodies on the field, or more power with guns. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Case and point why you should force them to jink. You can't snap a template.... On a side note, min cost on said flyrant is 210pts. If you need 3+ to threaten a single LR, it's doing it's job by soaking up the fire of 630pts+ in models for a single turn. They're 240 each, and a tyranid player trying to make a strong list is going to max out on these. They're going to fly around the whole game killing most anything you point them at. I very rarely have to jink a flyrant, since if I end it's movement with it's base on a ruin, or rubble, or forest or whatever I get a cover save anyway. They're not going to go out of their way to kill a LR. I only said anything in response to the notion that they can't hurt one without landing. I'm really not sure why soaking whatever's points in shooting for a turn matters. If I can remove your LR whenever I feel the need, and not sacrifice anything in the doing, how is the point cost relevant? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadwing34 Posted January 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Wow it seems like everyone hates flyrants except for Tyranid players. I guess the next game I have that has them in the list, I will just pack my army back up and give the win to the Tyranid player...haha! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAPcom Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 In an attempt to get back on topic: I've had relative success with a few units for anti-flyer support: A pair of Stormtalons with skyhammer missiles are great harassment units, serve as decent anti-flyer support, and will deal with most back field objective holders in a pinch. If you decide to go the forge world route, pick up a Cerestus Knight Castigator. It's a knight (13-12-12, 4+ ion shield) so it's pretty survivable, has a t.l. str 7 ap 3 heavy 8 gun, as well as some assault shenanigans. It's great against hordes, and has killed many flyrants in it's days. Also, it's only 380 pts. I consider it one of the best TAC units right now, and fits into any LOW slot (so no need to ally in anything) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 Both SW and BA have formations that can get flyers in on turn 1, btw. What formation for space wolfs allow flyers one turn 1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 21, 2015 Report Share Posted January 21, 2015 What formation for space wolfs allow flyers one turn 1? Yeah, I think I'm wrong about that one. There's reroll for turn 2 and such, but not turn 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von hammer Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 @Pretre: The cunning of the Wolf rule for SW allows 1 reserve to come in automatically turn every turn AFTER turn 1. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 In an attempt to get back on topic: I've had relative success with a few units for anti-flyer support: A pair of Stormtalons with skyhammer missiles are great harassment units, serve as decent anti-flyer support, and will deal with most back field objective holders in a pinch. You can pick these up for Armies like DA and SW via the Storm Wing formation if you don't want to Ally in SM in general. Two Talons and a Raven, and the Raven gets Strafing Run as long as at least one Talon is still on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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