WestRider Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 A single BS5 TL Melta shot has about a 28% chance of destroying an AV14 target. That gets worse if there's cover or an Invul for it, and assumes that the Opponent doesn't know how to bubblewrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 A single BS5 TL Melta shot has about a 28% chance of destroying an AV14 target. That gets worse if there's cover or an Invul for it, and assumes that the Opponent doesn't know how to bubblewrap. It doesn't honestly need to destroy the target. Stun/imobilized results are fine for a land raider, while weapon destroyed, shaken and stunned results are fine for leman russes. Certainly agree that preventative measures can diffuse the effectiveness of this tactic, but it really is only needed for the AV14+ targets, which are typically not very numerous. Even then, that's only for the high AV targets that are imediate threats, as both units can glance AV14 with stock melee weapons in assault. Anyway, point isn't to make DA overpowered, just to make them more in-line with the other books. SM, in example, don't really get more impressive with unbound armies. I think the above could be made compeditive, even if not broken. If going for top tier, you'd still want to splice in some other dataslates (which unbound armies are allowed to take as per the BRB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 You're still only looking at a bit over a 50/50 chance of a Pen, again assuming no Cover, Invul, or bubblewrap. And then there's the possibility of your Weapon Destroyed result just taking out the Hull Heavy Bolter or a Sponson, or the Land Raider may well have Extra Armour. And it only really reliably gets there if you're going first, they don't have Scout Blocking, and they don't just Deploy back far enough that Scout+Teleport Homer range still leaves you out of Melta Range. That's a LOT of very common potential points of failure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 You're still only looking at a bit over a 50/50 chance of a Pen, again assuming no Cover, Invul, or bubblewrap. And then there's the possibility of your Weapon Destroyed result just taking out the Hull Heavy Bolter or a Sponson, or the Land Raider may well have Extra Armour. And it only really reliably gets there if you're going first, they don't have Scout Blocking, and they don't just Deploy back far enough that Scout+Teleport Homer range still leaves you out of Melta Range. That's a LOT of very common potential points of failure. Are you just going to theory hammer it? Every list has lots of problems when subjected to forum "what ifs." I said it was the list I came up with 5 minutes of thinking. Obviously, it should have some flaws. A well thought out list would have less issues, no question. I don't really play DA at this point, so it isn't exactly something I'm devoting lots of time to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 ...or the Land Raider may well have Extra Armour. Side note: When was the last time you saw a LR with extra armor? Even as a player that owns multiple LRs, I haven't fielded this upgrade since we switched from the glance table to the hull point system. LR with daemonic possession or chonus I've seen, but extra armor is scarce on the Land Raider chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 WestRider's OFCC list has EA on his Land Raider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 WestRider's OFCC list has EA on his Land Raider. Wow... Did you really get enough use of the EA to justify it, or was it meant to soften your list for the OFCC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 It's for next OFCC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Are you just going to theory hammer it? Every list has lots of problems when subjected to forum "what ifs." Considering your original proposal was also theoryhammer, this criticism rings rather hollow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted March 2, 2015 Report Share Posted March 2, 2015 Considering your original proposal was also theoryhammer, this criticism rings rather hollow. Stop posting and write up a bat rep for 3++! I see you wrote something else on there. Very disappointing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 AP, Don't make Floshi angry. You wouldn't like him when he's angry. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Pfft, I ain't afraid of him. Even if he decides to power up, I know his weaknesses: basic gender critique and episode pacing. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Sadly, I'm not even a fan of DB:Z. I only obliquely watched the first two seasons because the roommate of one of my friends was always watching it in college and I couldn't help but pick up bits and pieces here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I'm sure the two seasons you watched were enough. That's enough to watch Vegeta go "THAT'S....NOT....POSSIBLE!! KAKKKAAAARRROOOOOTT!!!!!!" and Goku be a giant man-boy. That pretty much sums it up. :) Why is everyone so "afraid" of Inquisitor Spam? What's the concern about them and following Army Building guidelines in the BRB? Why wouldn't a "No Duplicate Detachments" not resolve the concerns people have about it? Score 9001 for Sig and Avvy Adds! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Why is everyone so "afraid" of Inquisitor Spam? What's the concern about them and following Army Building guidelines in the BRB? Why wouldn't a "No Duplicate Detachments" not resolve the concerns people have about it? Not overly concerned with the actual inquisitors. I think the concern directed at that codex relates to the Servo skull ability to totally negate scouts and infiltrators for a ridiculously low point investment. At present, the 2 detachment system makes the "cheap" servo skulls cost a detachment. Another would be the assassins. They aren't overpowered per say, but they are one of those models that facing one in EVERY army get's really dull really quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 We had that in 5th, iirc. Everyone imperial took the inquisitor with the deep strike intercept. It was cheap and easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Facing 3+ Armor in EVERY army gets really dull. Facing Las/Plas 6 man Razor Spam (in previous editions) gets really dull. Spam happens. Especially in competition. If I go to a tourny, I know I'll see certain things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Facing 3+ Armor in EVERY army gets dull.FALSE. Facing sisters is never boring. ;) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 FALSE. Facing sisters is never boring. ;) I wish unbound was more of a thing. I've become very lazy and reliant on drop pods I like being right in your face. I'm gonna start dropping sisters in pods around here I think if I can with the local crew. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Why is everyone so "afraid" of Inquisitor Spam? What's the concern about them and following Army Building guidelines in the BRB? Why wouldn't a "No Duplicate Detachments" not resolve the concerns people have about it? It's more as Pretre says, that people aren't enthused about the prospect of every single army- xenos, heretical, or Imperial- slapping a 34pt Inquisitor into the army in order to shut down enemy deployment options. More diversity in armies is good (and, for that alone, I'm happy in many ways with the results of LVO) but I think allowing unlimited detachments is a step away from that. However, I'm not dead-set on that; I just think it's worth at least thinking about and discussing to understand the risks involved. It may well be that it isn't relevant enough anymore to warrant the restriction, but my intuition as a list-writer is that isn't true; as I said, were the option available I absolutely would cram that dude into my army. We had that in 5th, iirc. Everyone imperial took the inquisitor with the deep strike intercept. It was cheap and easy. Inquisitor with Mystic retinue was extremely common in 5th, yeah. And, arguably, that guy wasn't nearly as good as the current Inquisitorial options. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted March 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Are you just going to theory hammer it? Every list has lots of problems when subjected to forum "what ifs." It's not just theory hammer. Most of my games in the last 4 months have been with Drop Wolves, relying on DS Melta to take out hard targets, and much of what I listed are issues I've personally run into on the table with the concept. And yeah I took Extra Armour on my Land Raider. When I've got almost 900 Points tied up there already, it's worth another 10 to stop the 1/6 chance of a Pen stalling them for a Turn. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 I wish unbound was more of a thing. I've become very lazy and reliant on drop pods I like being right in your face. I'm gonna start dropping sisters in pods around here I think if I can with the local crew.Take the flesh tearera detachment from exterminatus. It has six FA slots for a minimal investment. Also, Celestine is hilarious with fnp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Yeah, the diversity of the field at LVO says a lot for their choice of rules and where the games at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 Take the flesh tearera detachment from exterminatus. It has six FA slots for a minimal investment. Also, Celestine is hilarious with fnp. And this is the craziest thing, so many little ways to work stuff. Having the rules for the fine print is important so I need to find the local BA player... Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2015 Report Share Posted March 3, 2015 And yeah I took Extra Armour on my Land Raider. When I've got almost 900 Points tied up there already, it's worth another 10 to stop the 1/6 chance of a Pen stalling them for a Turn. That would do it, 900pts is much more than I ever put in a single target. Kinda curious what your list is now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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