list advice

[derek]

farseer on bike

Jet bike squad

hornets pulse lasers

Wraith knight

 

Archon

3 squads of warriors in venoms

razorwing jet fighter

2 more Venoms

 

Dark eldar is the primary all venoms have splinter cannons

 

Razorwing has dark lances and splinter cannon

 

The rest is as explained any other ideas for this 1850 list the dark eldar is using the real space raiders detachment.

[PumpkinHead]

What does your farseer have, mantle of laughing god? or does he run with the bike squad? What models do you have to work with? Or are you willing to go purchase new models?

[Mr.MoreTanks]

Mantle is the way to go for sure, this list is small and would REALLY benefit from a good summoning platform that is hard to kill. Snagging an empty DE raider for a unit of Wraithguard with flamers or a unit of Firedragons could be a good call and shore you up a bit vs. Knights or infantry. Bring both and through a web way portal on the Archon.

 

Weird to see Eldar without a Wave Serpent. 

[derek]

Ok so I have a different list with eldar primary

 

Farseer bike mantle

Dire avengers wave serpent

jet bikes

2 squads of 2 hornets

wraith knight

 

Real space raiders detachment

 

Archon Wwp shadow field

3 squads of warriors venoms with splinter cannons

3 razorwing jet fighters with dark lances and splinter cannon and stock missles

[derek]

I don't want to use summoning deamons As A thing. I prefer the straight army not abusing daemon summoning

[Guest]

I don't want to use summoning deamons As A thing. I prefer the straight army not abusing daemon summoning

Abuse? Perils on any doubles regardless of success, plus one eye open rolls if they get too close. Daemon summoning isn't exactly risk free. Also sucks up most of the power pool on high warp charge powers, which means less dice for classic eldar support powers.

 

I like the daemon summoning rules, but I don't think that their inclusion would always be of benefit for an army. Really limits your powers to be able to summon daemons.

 

Anyway, your call.

[CaptainA]

Abuse? Perils on any doubles regardless of success, plus one eye open rolls if they get too close. Daemon summoning isn't exactly risk free. Also sucks up most of the power pool on high warp charge powers, which means less dice for classic eldar support powers.

 

I like the daemon summoning rules, but I don't think that their inclusion would always be of benefit for an army. Really limits your powers to be able to summon daemons.

 

Anyway, your call.

The trouble is that Eldar Farseers have that helm where if you get a perils you spend a warp charge to get rid of it. Makes Eldar summoning very powerful. They can throw as much dice at something and not worry about a perils and get a daemon unit in.

[Guest]

The trouble is that Eldar Farseers have that helm where if you get a perils you spend a warp charge to get rid of it. Makes Eldar summoning very powerful. They can throw as much dice at something and not worry about a perils and get a daemon unit in.

True, but it means that they need to set aside yet another die. So, basic primaris summoning (or Incursion) power is three charge to cast. If we assume 50% odds to get each charge, that's 6 dice for the base summoning with a 7th set aside in case of perils.

 

By comparison, you could cast fortune 3.5 times with that many dice.

 

So two summons requires 14 dice without perils and so forth. If the eldar player wants to shut down their own psychic phase in order to create a few units, it really isn't a big deal. There are many more dangerous psychic powers that my army is much more worried about.

 

As for possession or sacrifice, although those warrant more caution for both the eldar player and the opponent. If farseer or warlock choose to remove themselves or others from the table in order to generate some better models, that is something to note, certainly, but it also means less eldar on the table...

 

EDIT: I do understand eldar have that gem which lowers the warp charge cost, but is once per game and further adds to the cost of the psyker.

[Prophecy]

Its not once per game. You sacrfice your invul save to do it.

[Guest]

Its not once per game. You sacrfice your invul save to do it.

My mistake, keep mixing it up with the phoenix gem.

 

Still, one per army and it is lost with a successful casting of possession. It does effectively make possession and summoning cheaper to cast, requiring both less dice and with lower odds of perils.

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Who perils more than once or twice in a game odds are fairly low.

[galahad911]

Who perils more than once or twice in a game odds are fairly low.

 

With Daemonology, any doubles is a perils unless you're the 1 specific faction that it doesn't do that to.

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Ah odds of doubling are much greater

[WestRider]

And given that Summoning is a WC3 Power, you need to throw quite a few dice at it. To get more than a 50/50 chance of success, you have to throw enough dice that you automatically suffer Perils.

[AbusePuppy]

Eldar can get the Spirit Stone of Anlathan, which lets you give up your invuln for -1WC on powers. It makes casting Summoning and other high-WC spells a lot more viable.

[fluger]

Not trying to have a fluff argument, but I think it's idiotic that Eldar are really good at summoning daemons and Chaos Sorcerers aren't.  More a complaint about CSM than Eldar.  

[WestRider]

Not trying to have a fluff argument, but I think it's idiotic that Eldar are really good at summoning daemons and Chaos Sorcerers aren't.  More a complaint about CSM than Eldar.  

Crimson Slaughter can actually build a Sorcerer who's pretty good at it. One of their Relics gives the bearer the Daemon special Rule, so he only gets Perils on double 6s, and then a Spell Familiar to re-roll failed Psychic Tests combos with that to make him pretty reliable at 5-6 dice.

[fluger]

That's good to know.  

[Guest]

CSM also have daemon princes, which certainly have have the daemon rule and can be potent summoners.

[fluger]

I was specifically referring to Chaos Sorcerers.  

[Guest]

I was specifically referring to Chaos Sorcerers.  

My mistake. In at least one prior edition, chaos called their psykers, "sorcerers."

Eldar can get the Spirit Stone of Anlathan, which lets you give up your invuln for -1WC on powers. It makes casting Summoning and other high-WC spells a lot more viable.

Mentioned already.

 

Main drawback to daemon summoning is that they mostly shut down your own psychic phase to summon a few units which can't really act that turn (treated as if deep striking from reserves, so no charges or moving, and most daemon units have limited shooting options. Plus, as they enter during the psychic phase, they don't add to the WC count for this turn. They will aid dispel dice, though).

 

Even down to two WC, you still need at least 4 dice for the power, then another in reserve to counter perils. More than 2 uses of daemonic summoning per turn requires a very dedicated eldar psyker army. It can certainly be done, but your probably doing it at the cost of other psychic powers.

 

Anyway, beyond the basic summoning power, all require random rolls on a per character basis, so even if you take the -1 WC item on a particular character, no guarantees that you'll get a power worth casting with it...

 

 

Ok so I have a different list with eldar primary

 

Farseer bike mantle

Dire avengers wave serpent

jet bikes

2 squads of 2 hornets

wraith knight

 

Real space raiders detachment

 

Archon Wwp shadow field

3 squads of warriors venoms with splinter cannons

3 razorwing jet fighters with dark lances and splinter cannon and stock missles

Sorry, OP, think I derailed your topic. Here is your last post on topic ^