LVO player packet is out, and it's genius

[AgentP]

The player packet for the Las Vegas open tournament, which will be the first official games workshop ran grand tournament six years (in the US), is out. And it's an absolute genius document. http://tinyurl.com/zkls4rt

 

Having been to Las Vegas open before, I cannot recommend it highly enough. It is by far the best ran tournament you will ever attend, and is conveniently located in the best city for such a huge event. And the fact that this year GW itself is running AoS makes it especially enticing.

 

I've already purchased my tickets, and hope to see you there

[WestRider]

That really does sound like a great outline for an event. Here's hoping this becomes the standard for AoS Tournaments.

[Threejacks]

 Nice to see sideboards!

 

  Always been a fan of that style of army building but could only get a few on board with it.

[evil_bryan]

Crap!

 

Was not expecting Sunday to go so late.

 

Looks like I'm coming home on Monday. :)

[WestRider]

 Nice to see sideboards!

 

  Always been a fan of that style of army building but could only get a few on board with it.

It depends on how big a standard Army is. I'm not a fan of it in 40K, because at 1850, Model Counts are already high enough to make hauling an Army around problematic. From what I've seen, AoS generally seems to involve significantly lower Model Counts, which makes it a better fit. My other issue in 40K is that there's a lot of stuff that can be "hard countered" pretty easily with a sideboard. Not sure how AoS is in that regard.

[alindahl]

I'd love to go, but I don't think my wife would be too keen on me taking a trip just for this haha.  And she has no interest in Vegas lol

[alindahl]

Just read through the packet.  Absolutely love it!  Maybe just maybe I can convince her muhahaha

[Threejacks]

  Yeah,with 40k it would be tough to do,though ive always thought it would go along ways toward helping with balance.But yeah,not really feasable with that game in its current state.

 

 Now in AoS,it fits perfectly being since the original design of the game was very much players bringing a "collection" then alternating deployment to muster their forces.This just takes that concept and adds in the points balancing but yet still allows for fair amount of customizing at the mustering stage.Also with AoS`s design,hard counters are almost non existant.Alpha stiking certainly takes place but most every army has that capability to some extent.

 

 

 And yeah SparkMage,AoS model counts at 2k points are usually very managable for the average size carrying bag,and I can see most Sideboards just being a monster and maybe some heros with perhaps 5-15 troop models.500 pts gets eaten up pretty fast actually,heh.

[AgentP]

The two things I love most about this packet:

 

1. Requiring that the winner have received at least one favorite opponent pin.  Brilliant.  This should be adopted by OFCC - fantastic idea.

 

2. The sideboards provide a nice counter to battalion formations, and book special abilities.  While formations give bonuses, they limit your model selection.  Some folks might be salty about not having a new shiny Sylvaneth book equivalent, with special abilities for staying pure "Sylvaneth" etc.  But going just general "Order" in a sideboard format allows much more flexibility to design a force on the fly to meet scenarios, and your opponent.  So I think this is a great balance to the new books.

[AgentP]

I'm so excited for this event, I'm wondering if I need to up my game model-wise.  I do have an entire Moonclan army in a tub in the storage unit, including the FW Colossal Squig.  Hmm.....

[Threejacks]

If you need some sparring as it approaches feel free to send me a tell and we can meet up:)

[Brother Glacius]

So help me out here if you would please. I've watched a few AoS games. By no means an expert, but they seem to all end up as a big scrum in the middle. I know there are strategies in figuring out the best order in which to activate your units once combat is joined, but I haven't seen much else. 

 

AoS looks like a fine game for the model collector. They get to buy well made models, and for the most part, great looking as well. AoS gives them a simple game to use them in. But I'm not seeing the draw for a tournament player with this game, even with the point values now. Where is the tactical depth in the game? Otherwise, I see it as mostly using the units that have the best stats and/or formations that grant the best stats.

 

And yes, I am really interested in the answers. I have hordes of GW fantasy models and would be a fool to ignore the game completely. :)

[Steel Angel]

""I see it as mostly using the units that have the best stats and/or formations that grant the best stats.""

 

Dude you just described all the wargames out there.

 

What makes it tactical is how you use those units in any game. Rules do not make tactics you make them.

 

I've played fantasy, I've played 40k, I've play warmachine, and Kow. Isn't not how the game is played, it's how you play the game thats makes it tactical.

[alindahl]

Well the matched play scenarios are all objective based, so a big battle in the middle is not likely to occur in matched play.  

 

Movement is certainly less tactical than Fantasy, but there is still quite a bit in that department.  Trying to lure tasty targets away, tactically retreating to prevent further damage or take objectives, flanking, deep striking (and preventing them), minimizing and/or maximizing model to model contact, blocking opponents forces from valuable units, etc.  One of my favorite games was when I lured my opponent into a narrow passage that I was able to block off with Retributors.  They hammered themselves against it until there was nothing but scraps left of their force and it all depended on me keeping my forces just one step ahead of them.  

 

Now with the rules and how summoning works now makes magic a much more tactically engaged process.  You can only attempt to cast each spell once per phase which requires a lot of thought and planning.  Summoning allows you to build your army on the fly, as you don't have to declare what you will be summoning.  You pick what fits the situation.  

 

Many units are strong against particular targets and weak against particular targets.  How do you get your forces into contact with the right enemies and away from the ones that will kill them easily?  And not only is choosing what units will attack in what order in combat engaging, but piling in is also extremely tactical.  How do you do it to get more of your models in combat?  Can you block the piling in of more enemy models?  

 

I'm sure others can say more.  I have found AoS a game that seems really simple at first look, but once you start playing a few games many subtleties come out of the woodwork.  I have not actually played a game where everything just ended up in the middle.

[Brother Glacius]

""I see it as mostly using the units that have the best stats and/or formations that grant the best stats.""

 

Dude you just described all the wargames out there.

Yeah....no. Sorry, but one of the best parts of WFB was the fact that you could take units that weren't the best and still find a use for them. I think the new book for AoS does have something like a core designation? Is that sort of limited list building back in the game?

[alindahl]

Yeah....no. Sorry, but one of the best parts of WFB was the fact that you could take units that weren't the best and still find a use for them. I think the new book for AoS does have something like a core designation? Is that sort of limited list building back in the game?

Yes they are called Battleline and the different point limits require a certain number of units of them.  In addition there are limits to the number of Leaders, Artillery, and Behemoths.

 

As to the first part of your post, I think this is even more true in AoS at least from what I have seen.  There are more synergies within factions and every unit tends to have some strength one way or another.  There are very few units that are just plain bad in all respects.  And that fact that you can build lists using units from the all factions within your Grand Alliance is huge for strategic list building.  Dwarven artillery with Stormcast Judicators and Pheonix Guard?  Yes that's legal.  There are a endless builds.  

[KlawKnee]

Having two realmgates helps that fight in middle thing..

[Threejacks]

Humm,cant quote anymore on these forums for some reason...

 

 Anyhow,,to Brother Glacius,

 

  I know it may be difficult to see what makes AoS a deep tactical gaming experience,,. I mean really,the game has just FOUR pages of rules right? well,,its only 4 pages for those that dont have armies,dont use battleplans and dont play with points,or time of war rules,,or Alegiance abilities or terrain.

 

  You mention that all you`ve seen in batreps is a big mosh pit battle in the center of the board,,sheese when was the last batrep you watched?..that kind of game result was on its way out last summer/fall once Battleplans started popping up.And really,wasnt WHFB played as Battleline primarily?..,thus having a vast majority of fights taking place midfield?.

 

 I find that one of the best ways to compare AoS gameplay,is with 40k Gameplay as they share alot of similarities.AoS though features melee engagements were is 40k features ranged.Thats why AoS melee weapons have ranges to them and a more intricate pile-in and combat sequence.The Matched play system brings in much needed balance in the way that summoning is heavily controlled,the game uses objective points and even turn by turn scoring and a set turn limit(5 turns matches).

 

  Now I think eventually as with all point systems there will be those combos that rise to the top while others sink to the bottom..but once again we are dealing with a game that has a pretty high random factor and armies that really have no hard counters to other armies,so in the end I dont think it will lead to the kind of army disparity seen in games like 40k currently...only time will tell for sure though.

[DisruptiveConduct]

Humm,cant quote anymore on these forums for some reason...

 

?

[Threejacks]

  Khan,for some reason when I use the "Quote" button to respond,the posting window opens for text entry but no quoted post...plus I cant paste in my posts either..

 

 I recently did a scan with Norton and it removed a fton of tracking cookies,speeding my browsing up a bunch,,but probably reset some stuff so its likely on my end.Im too dim to figure it out though,lol

[AgentP]

Bro G, I would be happy to play a couple games with you anytime to show you the game, so that you can see if it's for you.  There is not WHFB block movement, but I would say that's a plus, not a minus.  I personally found WHFB movement not tactical, but just gimmicky and subject to ridiculous exploit.  AoS is highly objective based, much like 7th ed 40k, with a need to bring a varied list.  You need some large model count units, some lower count harder units, some ranged shooting, and some quick redeployment options.  And the lists you see in tournaments are varied, with no real net lists emerging, and with a wide variety of units represented.  Overlaid all that, is the fact that the game is about unit synergy, and it's a struggle to build armies that support and force multiply each other - making army building challenging and fun.

 

All I can say to entice you is this:  Fantasy was always based in England, that's where the major tournaments and best players always were.  And the AoS tournaments in the last six months have eclipsed the top attendance of the 8th edition tournaments.  Some of the best tactical wargaming players around are playing this game, and it's growing.  Not being a tactical genius myself, I'll take my cues from those people, and if they're finding it tactical and rewarding at a tournament level, then I think that's a good endorsement.