Lord Hanaur

good thing you can watch those on TV, eh? =)

Its kinda exhausting to discuss the cross-rule mess isn't it? lol. There's a guy who set up a game on Thursday and he had to make like SIX distinctions on what his tourney is allowing just so that people who gave him a practice game would include the right stuff. hehehe.

No, the plan is to hide them until they can charge. Dropping them off would only be done if there was terrain to hide them in. But if the big boy does charge i get my shots, i get overwatch and then i get to attack with 6 powerfist attacks which aren't the worst odds in the world. But that wouldn't be the main plan. Plan is to get the jump on em. the bigger picture plan is to protect the main units from being tied up. My PRIMARY fear for an army like the one I want to play is that the big blob will simply never fire after round 2. Most of my anti-tank is in those units, so losing their ability to shot could be very bad. Now i am talking EMERGENCY contingencies here. By and large the army is already planned. What I am having a real difficulty with is that i KNOW a canny general will see the value of locking me up interminably. I need something mean enough to knock them back on their blocks and continuye the stream of death unabated. Taking out a 200-300 point Monster model while doing it is not a bad outcome while I'm at it. Nowhere else in the IG codex is there enough hitting power without involving the blobs. You can really only get this kind of punch from the actual Platoon Commands or the Company Commands...or allies. Outside of those sources, you really don't have a puncher in the force. Ogryns are NOT the answer. Rough riders ARE the answer to a lot of units, but of course they do have their unfortunate downside and they aren't AP 2 which is a critical distinction and they can't get their STR up for the challenge more than once. So the options for melee ARE limited, like they are for Tau. but unlike Tau, IG rely HEAVILY on their troops for many more roles than the Tau. So they have to protect them instead of sacrificing them as easily as Tau can when forced. I suppose a second command squad with Straken? He's UBER beefy. His unit is spendy but so is this. hmm...

That date works. Its the weekend before I go in for my second eye surgery sodont move it again! i needs my warhammah fix before i go in for that!

The codex and main rulebook is all that's needed besides the Apocalypse book itself. and thats a book you can share if someone already owns it. The others are icing i guess (if you like Fetid icing on your cake. =))

I know you cant assault from them. i was referring to the next turn. And i am assuming "Bring it Down" orders have been issued. Cover is fine but when the enemy comes to you, they aren't always getting cover. there is an order you can give to force re-rolls on cover saves though if it seems like it will be a bigger issue. Against Lysander, cover is irrelevant, but against Daemons it could be.

Yeah thats true, the meltabombs ARE great. The unit goes for 130 points like you say. A little cheaper. You're already going to SPEND 70 points on the Platoon command pretty much no matter what, whether you ALSO take Vets or not. Its just too good a caddy to assassinate something important. So by paying 130 MORE in the list for vets, you're paying 200 points total for the role (70 for the platoon command and 130 for Vets) I saw it as a net 30 point savings in the list because the monster is now dead and we may lose the Platoon command afterwards, but EITHER of those units would be in the same boat afterwards right? Both would likely perish afterwards. So with the vets option, you're getting extra wounds but IG go for 5 points model so that 30 point total savings i propose represents 6 wounds. In other words you're gaining 4 net wounds by going with the Vets, plus their weapons if they ever fire at something besides what the Platoon command was already going to. I know its convoluted math, but what i was looking at was that I want to spend as little as possible to protect the main Platoon from getting hit by a monster it cant win against and possibly getting tied up and unable to fire. This platoon command can obliterate such a threat, and though likely to die afterwards unless terrain is very kind on consolidation, its 30 points less for the role and once its accomplished, another unit wouldn't be, strictly speaking, necessary. Things with 2+ saves, once they get into you, its trouble. Lysander is a great example. That dude is a wrecking ball. A platoon command PLUS veteran squad cannot kill him with their 7 meltas COMBINED! COMBINED they do 1.1 wounds to Lysander, and then charge him. Without the Powerfists... Lysander beats them both down like little children. WITH the Powerfists, the platoon command may actually lose by enough to stand their ground and finish him (1.11 unsaved wounds in melee as well). So Monsters are one issue, and Lysander type monsters are another. The platoon command saves 30 points inthe pursuit of their destruction, albeit yes giving up a little too. There's other examples of course but You kinda see where my mind is going. now that we've discussed it some I am thinking i would probably only ever do it to one Platoon Command but its a valuable role that it fills. Vets just can't take on Eternal Warrior threats like Lysander...

Lets face it: If we don't kill the monster, it kills us. Space Marine OR Imperial Guard unit. The units fragility only matters BEFORE the desperate combat. I definitely don't disagree that the unit is more fragile though of course. Just that it will do far more than the Tacticals. As for tank killing: Vindettas can drop them into a ruin or whatever and they can charge from it afterwards. So if you WANT to get to enemy tanks, you can. However, it requires a good landing space. Lots of tanks and drop pods come TO the IG though. Lots. I dont find that particularly unusual. Outflanking Devilfish's, Rhinos, Wave Serpents trying to gank objectives late in the game, Dark Eldar Wyches o nthe charge and so on. The Monsters swings going in is accounted for. I assumed the only survivor would be the commissar and the Platoon leader against a monster (though in reality the Monster probably only kills 3). The Meltas and the Fists will do in MOST monsters though with the Honor of Cadia driving them fervently forward.

Kay so i was tinkering. Here's a thought. Platoon Command Squads can look like this: 4 Guardsman (4 x meltaguns) Platoon Commander (Twin Power fists) Commissar (Twin Power Fists) ALL with Krak Grenades = 170 points Clearly such a valuable unit is going to get orders when the time comes. So this little unit of dudes is a self contained BEATstick when allowed to strike. Against Tough 6 Monstrous Creatures, it causes 2.5 wounds in shooting and then 3.33 wounds in melee on the charge pretty much guaranteed. Plus its alive (more or less) and drawing fire afterwards. The entire unit as a whole is going to whallop vehicles with certainty that is hard to find and really, any unit it wants. The unit is a mandatory component of the Infantry platoon so you don't have to agonize over whether to have one, Just what you'll do with it. It's scoring so it will never be a waste to move it forward as long as terrain or vehicles can provide it cover. It seems to me the trick with this unit is to position and time its strike well against high value stuff and then draw frie that would normally never go to a platoon command squad if it was its normal humdrum self. Now the extra 140 points you're spending on this unit can buy you a Leman Russ battle tank almost. So I understand that pouring the points into a five man unit sounds odd. But a majority of the generals I see are already pouring four meltas into these units. So they are routinely 70 point units anyways. So the extra 100 points is mostly the debatable part. There are a couple reasons I felt it might not be a waste. For one, Monsters like WraithKnights require a serious series of blows to go down and in 40K, wounded things act just like unwounded things if you dont kill em. WraithKnights deny areas of the battle field, are fast enough to adapt to new needs as the game goes on and are a serious amount of firepower. having a unit you can pull up and charge with to kill the giant and not have to expend MULTIPLE other units essentially. By paying the 100 points more, you're saving the shooting of several units for more appriopriate duty. So it is kind of a move on the economy of scale. If you can safely position them to bring the pain, it will be one seriously bad headache in the morning. If it was to be a deep striker from Vindettas, one obviously would want to hide the unit on insertion and allow them to plan operations for the next turm If coming from reserve they can be used to very effectively to get rid of the big bad thing thats in the way of the IG Line. whatever we end up with , it seems that this Platoon unit can really be an X factor. Compare the 170 to what 160 IG Veterans can do. 3 Meltas, BOMBS, and only half the Powerfists... AND a few more men. Ultimately not the melee monster that the Platoon command is. Not too far apart in destructive possibilities. But the platoon command does look more like the Russian bear that you need to storm the kitchen cupboards and take whats yours. If someone dropped in, with as much as there is in the back side of an IG army, and sees our platoon unit, it can get shot up, but it wont be the main unit anyways so its death is both regrettable and less relevant. If two wave serpents end up having to fire down and kill that Plattooon,the diversion of fire is probably welcome. A SM tactical squad does 1.46 unsaved wounds to the monter then they can do 1.11 Melta wounds with 2 Meltas. Not enough to kill most of them without tying up the shooting of the other units. Pretty far from being able to end the problem. That Space Marine unit is 170 also. So looking at comperables, it seems like the IG Platoon command when decked out to kill, is truly an impressive package at its destination. Elite and Highly armoured targets would hate it. Reserve them for later? escort them with tank sides to avoid getting hit? Teleporting them?

One thing I like about Flames of War: Recreating battles like we did Sunday ( Battle or Kursk) is cool because even though you know the Germans whalloped the Soviets, they basically ran outta bullets and had to retreat. But recreating what was a mismatch is still fun because its the "what if" factor. Thats why i like the alter of war missions. They are fluffy missions that make the actual armies used a little less important.

Artillery kills super tanks eventually. Sometimes the "slow blade penetrates the shield". 155mm guns make for very slow blades, :)

One day soon, im gonna spring for painting, and go to some of these events. Im sick of "great job kid, but..."

ALL Marine armies range between 45 and 60 models on the high end. Its probably helped propel Marine armies into 1st place in popularity. They are much tougher as a whole than most armies.

Look at the very last blog I did. Its all about the black legion codex. I am loving the black legion. GREAT FUN TO READ and the relics are awesome.

Mauler fiends are bad ass.

lances can come from Blasterborn, can come from normal warriors... i mean theres really no need to put them on Raiders. I could SEE a Ravager but even then I'd be torn.

I always use disintegrator Cannons on the Raiders and Ravagers. Anti tank can come from a lot of places in the army. You dont need them on those.

Prudence sometimes dictates target priority more than real damage dealing ability, and lets face it, its a dice game. Any given Sunday, the Cleveland Browns COULD win and the Scout missile COULD down a bird. So if theres extra firepower lying around, hey, why not use the scouts for first blood right?

Ravagers don't really need to DS, given their range. Normal reserves generally works fine if you want to conserve their firepower til the enemy anti-tank abilities have been reduced. An Aegis line can kind of help you manage their timing.

To be fair, most play an army at a time most of the time. But I also have 9 armies myself and feel somewhat compelled to know them. I don't have any deathstars in my armies that i can think of so i think Deathstars are probably a little oversold as necessary. Its one way to win for sure. But if I was to make a list 9and maybe we should?) of all the different TYPES of forces I play, sort of categorizing them, I think I'd find NO fortifications (well i am trying a skyshield ruight now but its not thus far very impactful) no deathstars and no super heavies. I think you can win without all that.

Lol. Yeah if someone would paint my stuff I'd go compete. My stuff just isn't good enough to overcome that disability but I am good enough at most wargames I play. confidence is high. =-) Ive avoided major competitions for this reason. The Warhammer GT's I went to I only lost one game but paint was just so abysmal that i was never seriously in the running anyways. I've gotten best General a few times at FOW stuff, but it's always second fiddle to the dude that can paint. Ah paint. curses.

I should probably go win those.

Im finding no shortgae of people willing to play normal games without Escalation and Stronghold. Hopefully its like Cities of Death: its there, you can play it Buuuut.... no ones really pressing the issue. You know?

My buddy packs three Plasma Cannon Longfangs in his building with Tigurius and a couple rune priests for added fun. uses a Storm to mess with Deep Strikers which just sits behind it and does nothing until the end. I think he has a couple pods to try and keep the enemy in the backfield while he whittles whats up front and then kinda hopes you'll give up on assaulting the Fortress while he lays down the boom on your anti-fortress strength units. Its kinda not nice. stay at 37" away and you can just kill his pod units but ultiately given objectives... at some point you have top try to come at him unless its my base/Yourbase. I've given some thought to the shortcomings of this and have found a couple, but nothing that I think takes away from the incredible effectiveness of this approach. I've got a plan (we've only fought once with his Fortress) but I haven't had a chance to try it. I basically won the game last time but my Daemonforging Heldrake couldn't kill 3 guys. sigh, So close...

Yes, a pair of 3 Jetbikers might even be advisable over the Warp Spiders really. 5 man Spider units are good but they can't finish a job on their own. So the scoring potential in a couple Wind rider units is probably a bigger threat in the grand scheme, even though Spiders are fun as hell. They need to be just a little bit bigger units to realize their full potential though. Bikes really dont.