Brother Glacius

How this was not posted, I will never know...

They don't need to keep selling 8th edition books. That isn't what I was suggesting. For those with 8th ed books you can continue using them with whatever GW puts out. This is all under the context of "if you already have it, you can keep using it". That does not require them to sell 8th edition material at all.

I still don't see where you think GW is going to invalidate your existing army. They could easily publish a set of rules that are compatible with 8th ed books. That is not a huge effort on their part. Thus, you get to keep playing with your current models and you don't have to rebase anything. Remember Ravening Hordes? Again, not a big effort from GW required to release something like that. But moving forward, I could see where they will focus on expanding the skirmish game instead of going back to mass battles.

I'm sorry, are you guys just not reading what was written? I have said from the beginning, that GW will give token support to your existing armies. But they are not going to spend much effort on expanding your existing square base army or getting people to buy a square based army. It makes more sense for them to create a skirmish style game (ie 40K - round bases, less restrictive movement, typically less models needed) that scales well for all sizes. Entry level will be fairly cheap by GW standards, much less than it costs now to get into WFB, with a development cycle that pops out smaller factions on a similar schedule to 40K, that can mix and match with other factions. Its working great for 40K. Tell me, why should GW care about your current armies? Time has shown that people with existing armies aren't buying enough. New dwarfs came out, I'm a long time dwarf player. How many new models did I buy? ..... One. Was I going to replace my current longbeards with $5 per model plastics? Am I going to lay down $150 to replace one unit? Hell no. GW wants to draw new people in. They don't give a rats ass for those who've come before. Bottom line, Fantasy looks like a lot of work, it is a lot of work, and it is more expensive than 40K. If your only argument for GW sticking with large scale square based armies is because people already own those armies, then you don't understand how selling works. As for the WE statement, I didn't mean the unit was weak, but a unit of 20 models is considered almost below minimum size now in fantasy.

And yet they are pulling ET books and all of the other army books off of the shelves. Why? Because they don't need them. The people that want them, already have them. A small round base skirmish force does not grow into a large square based army. Sorry. It does grow into a medium skirmish force, and then a large skirmish force...but still a skirmish force..and still on round bases. And GW will be more than happy to sell you round bases for your existing square based models. Or sell you the same model you already own, but on a round base. Why? Because they want to sell [big bad swear word]. This all comes back to selling models. What can they sell you? They don't want to just sell you a book...they want to sell you a book and an army. How do they do that? Well they sell you the book which lets you buy just a few models to play. Then they offer more models in case you want a slightly larger game. Then they sell you another book with different models, that you can play by themselves, or with your other new models.They keep doing that until you have an army. And they want to keep adding to that army. 8th edition fantasy does not work with that design. Big square based regiments do not work with that design. Take witch elves for instance. What is more appealing....Buying 10 models for $60, put them on round bases, and have a fairly big cool unit for a skirmish game (which you can ally with other factions), or paying $120 for 20 models which is considered fairly weak in the current fantasy game, oh, and it is only for one army? In current fantasy, if you don't run DE, you aren't buying that unit. In skirmish fantasy, that customer base grows substantially.

Guy walks into an ice cream parlor and the counter person asks, "What can I get for you?" The customer looks around for a minute and they says, "Give me two scoops of chocolate." A little embarrassed, the counterman replies, "I'm sorry sir, we are all out of chocolate today. Can I interest you in something else?" "Oh yeah, no problem...just give me a minute.......okay, how about two scoops of chocolate?" "Sir, I just said we are all out of chocolate...very sorry, but no chocolate. If there is something else? "Oh man..yeah you did just say...sorry...being a little flaky today. Hmmmm....let me see....how about.....two scoops of chocolate?" "Okay sir, let me try this another way...Can you spell the 'van' in vanilla?" "uh...yeah..v a n." "Okay great..now can you spell 'straw' in strawberry?" "S t r a w" "Super, doing great. Now, can you spell the 'f*ck' in chocolate?" "There's no 'f*ck' in chocolate..." "THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU!"

How does releasing a ruleset that is compatible with the 8th ed army books invalidating the current collections? GW simply has no reason to release new army books to the same scope and scale as they did with previous editions. That sort of game, eventually fails to meet their sales expectations. A skirmish game won't get people to buy a full fantasy army. They need to reinvent fantasy. They need to find that magic formula where it appears to be easier to get into. The large scale fantasy doesn't fit that image. What does fit, are smaller factions that can work together. And I'm sorry, but GW doesn't care about what you own. They only care about what you are willing to buy. If I can keep the mob from rioting by releasing compatible rules with their existing models, but tempt them with a new game and format which requires you to buy new models....oh yeah, there is no doubt that is what I'd do. And of course they are going to pull existing stuff from the shelves. If you are trying to push a new format, you don't want the old one to get in the way. And again, these are my musing, my speculations. I just don't see why GW would want to lead people to a format of the game which already was proven not to work out for them. What is working for them is 40K. My bet is that they will take fantasy more in that direction.

I stated that I think GW will release a set of rules that are compatible with the 8th edition army books. That will support large army games. However, GW doesn't need to pursue it any further than that. Look at what they are doing with 40K. Rapid release of models and books due to the huge fact that books can now be used together. Basically, making fantasy more like 40K is a smarter way for them to go. Why waste the energy to try and come up with balanced large scale army rules for each race? That doesn't attract new players. So they come out with the skirmish game. Round bases, small number of models. How does that translate to a large army? Are people really going to jump from a 20 model force to a 100+ model force on square bases? No. It is much easier to build them up to a 40 model force...and then a 60 model force...all on round bases, all using the same rule set. At no point does that roll over to a large square based army. So what you'll have are new books that focus most of the rules and lists for the skirmish game. If GW wants to be really smart, then they also include an addendum to the 8th army list with whatever new model they pushed out. So if you are a skirmish player, the majority of the book is for you. If you are a square baser, then there's a reason for you to buy the new models for your existing army. What you won't see are army books like 8th edition. You won't see a Bretonnian army book to replace the current one. That won't sell models. What you should end up getting are Bretonnian faction books, with small sets of units that are nicely themed. The book will let you field a coherent force for the skirmish game that you can ally with other forces. They don't need to focus on the large scale game. They have a good rule set, they will release minor tweaks to it, and then be done. They will focus on getting new players to the system, which means skirmish/40K style gameplay. Looser, simpler, and easy to scale from small to medium. I wouldn't be surprised if the current regiment boxes for fantasy eventually become web store only. It won't cost them much to keep that option open for players. Getting people to play small skirmish games is not going to entice them to play large scale games. There just isn't a transition there.

So I've been keeping up with the main rumors for fantasy just like everyone else here. I own several armies and have invested heavily into the game. However, I don't see why GW will do more than a token effort towards the large scale game. Why did Fantasy fail? From most accounts, 8th edition was well liked. It was nearly completed in terms of army books. I think most of us believe that it is too hard to get new people into the game. And it is typically attributed to the cost of making a large (2K+) army. With twenty model units costing anywhere from $50-$120, and even single characters running $20+, the game out-priced the audience. Plus, its a lot of work. Now I keep reading people making predictions on 9th edition. That there will be two games, a skirmish and then a large scale version of the rules. But honestly, why would GW care about large scale? It was already proven to fail. Oh, I think they will release a ruleset that is compatible with 8th edition army books. But beyond that, why would GW support that size of game? For those of us with armies already....they don't care about us in that context. We have our armies. Other than rules and a new unit or two we aren't buying the quantities that GW wants. And the price point of large armies is too restrictive. Not only that, but the work of assembling and painting 100+ models is also daunting to new players. So why would GW want to focus on that style of game? I don't think they will. I think the skirmish level is where you will see GW focus their attention. Recently on their web site they had a AdMech bundle for over $800. It had less than 60 models. It was also sold out. Now GW bundles don't even come with a discount. $16 a mini basically, and it sold out. And you'd need three books to play it, so there's another $150. Why is that price point okay? Why is that not restricting players? I think it is the nature of the 40K game. People can buy smaller armies and still enjoy it. They can pick up a small allied force to add to their main army. The models are more dynamic and even grunts stand out all by themselves instead of being hidden in a block. It doesn't seem so overwhelming. What I see GW doing is releasing rules to get people in the door, something in the 10-20 model range at first. And then they will expand it out to 50-60 size, and that will be the sweet spot. Then they can roll out new factions just like 40K. Did the AdMech need two books? Hell no...but GW did it because they knew people would get both. Same thing is going to happen to Fantasy. They will release a book with 3-4 model sets. Think of it...there are 15? armies for fantasy. Break that down into probably at least three books per army book as sub-factions if not more. They can just rotate through them and people will buy it up. There just is no reason for GW to try to push large armies anymore.

Best image I've seen today:

Bumpy

I know this belongs in the trade forum, but I just wanted to get the right exposure. I have a Kedorian patrol fleet and the support fleet that I'd like to trade for another one. Aquans and Relthoza are high on the list, but would consider others. Some models have been assembled, but nothing on a base. No paint or primer.

Wish I had forces that represented D Day troops. By the way, the emails you sent out did not include a location.

Yeah, I picked up a beautiful M39. Just couldn't justify having two mosins.

Bells had that "sigmar" is a board game.

So I went a little crazy with my new hobby (big surprise), and ended up getting one more rifle than I should have. Would like to sell my mosin nagant. Details can be found here: http://www.armslist.com/posts/4391837/portland-oregon-rifles-for-sale--1891-mosin-nagant--1922-hex--finnish-marked This rifle has had a long and interesting life and if I had the space, I would be keeping it. PM if interested.

Double post.

I call dibs on being Bart.

Yes, and I did nothing to bad mouth GW in my first post. I merely made the statement that this was the first version of Fantasy that I wasn't going to buy. But you fanboi's don't actually care about little things like the facts. Your blind loyalty to GW is really quite something. Careful there, you have a little bit of GW's scortched earth on your nose....

Or you could learn to read Sylvos. People have asked me questions and I have answered them. Or should the forum only be for people that think like you do and have the same opinions? Feel free to start up your own positive GW threads and you can bask in the glow. :)

well, if more people would play KoW, then we could probably have a tournament. In fact, Mantic actually hosts cash prizes for their big KoW tournaments. I can't force people to play a game though. All I can do is keep offering to teach. Hopefully when 2.0 is officailly release we will see a greater interest.

I'd rather support a company like Mantic.

Yes. GW's practices have pissed me off for a while. The destruction of their lore because they out priced their customers is inexcusable. I choose to speak my dissatisfaction with my wallet.

Any interest in the original Golfag's ogres regiment?

Best post EVER! Lion, if your bases are mag'd, then you could always just mag a round base and boom...done. 9th (or whatever nonsense they release) will be the first Fantasy system I don't buy from GW since 4th. When GW returns to the awesomeness of regiment boxes, then I might give them a look again.