Brother Glacius

2pts actually

you got all the points! :)

how the hell do you get 31 points after one game??

OOoooooo you also forgot, 26. Get Brother G. to complain :)

Ummm this is just a 25mm base unit. 5 models for $55, no way they are anything bigger.

I'm going to try. Depends on life though. How about some stuff that only undead can do, since you have stuff that undead can't do. How about have a unit crumble away? Have an opponent fail a fear or terror test?

I think this is too big to simply be a "campaign". Let's face it though, warhammer has always been fluid with the time line. In many books, the SC's are already dead. I think this will become a permanent piece of wfb lore. End Times happened. You can play before or after, but it did happen. Now, as to the possibility of new combined books? I think so. I think GW wants to pair down the cycle of WFB. Combined books let them do that. 50% lords...I see that too as staying. Why? because it lets you bring the big toys. Will play styles eventually weed them out? I think so too. There is nothing from stopping you from having an event saying its 25% lords....but by GW opening that door officially, they let people plan new armies...and that means new figures...which translate into sales. Let the fans restrict or not restrict themselves...but by having it officially possible, then you give people a reason to buy more.

page 26. "During your Remaining Moves sub-phase, units that did not charge, flee, rally or compulsorily move this Movement phase, and which are not engaged in combat, can now move and perform maneuvers as described on page 13." Page 13. Maneuvers "There are two specific maneuvers that enable a unit to change direction or rearrange its ranks: wheel and reform." Did your hoppers move in the compulsory move phase? Yes. Therefore, they cannot move or perform maneuvers, ie wheel/reform in the remaining moves phase. So then what movement can they do in the compulsory move phase. As defined by Random Movement, they can pivot, and then move directly forward 3d6. Page 24: "the player has no control over the movement of such troops and so these are referred to as compulsory moves."

Some people just won't be convinced. That is a lovely super long post. Is there anywhere in the Random Movement rules that state that a unit can do anything else other than point the direction they wish to move (either by spinning in place, or pivot about the center in the case of a unit) and move directly forward the number rolled? You see, that rule clearly states the extent of the movement allowed. Further, the book says that movement maneuvers only take place in the Remaining Moves phase, the lone exception are the charge wheels..which are spelled out in the Charge section. Random Movement takes place in the Compulsory phase. At this point, if an opponent tries to do that against me, I will disagree. If they wish to continue with it, I will do die roll. I will seriously consider not playing against that opponent again.

Ive got one.

now see, I was going to say aliens....

I'll take that

That is actually Rcnjack's point. Here is his quote: His whole point is that those maneuvers, ie reforms, can only happen in the Remaining Moves sub-phase. They cannot happen in the compulsory move sub-phase. To me, this is a much more clear rule that shuts down the reform for squig hoppers. As to the argument that the 3d6 roll becomes their movement value, well the rules for random movement don't state that. It says the unit is simply moved that number. It does not define that roll as anything else. As hard as it does seem, the rules simply don't support a unit of random movement models the ability to reform during the movement phase.

@Flava - It also needs to be said that it is up to the community to police itself. I have an 18 year old son that just did something incredibly selfish and immature which resulted in someone else being hurt very deeply. It is my responsibility as a parent to let him know how what he did is being perceived, and the weight of the consequences. The tactic being discussed (not the individual) is going to be perceived negatively by the majority of players. That needs to be shared. Hopefully that player will read this thread and understand where we are coming from. It would then be my hope that this tactic isn't used again. But yes, someone has to come forward and say that.

On a side note, regarding the tactic used against NtK, I find that very questionable. Warhammer already has a well defined staple mandate of no model moving more than twice its MV value in almost every situation. GW points out that restriction in a multitude of places. So to then reform your unit into a conga line moving X distance, rolling your random movement of Y, and then reforming again Z distance when you didn't make it...is clearly in violation of that mandate. And what happened if he did hit the enemy unit? Did he stay in his conga line? or did he spread out again? So I can clearly see why people are reacting strongly to this. It doesn't sound friendly on paper at all.

Most of this stuff is still available.

I'm sorry folks, I couldn't help but read the rules involved and I think there are a few things that clear this up: A) random movement - "if two or more models in the unit have the random movement special rule, pivot the unit about its centre,..." B) random movement - "Models with the Random Movement special rule do not have a Movement characteristic..." now add this rule from Skirmishers under Free Reform - "provided that no model ends up moving a number of inches higher than double its Move value." Rule A clearly states that when you have more than one model in the unit (which squig hoppers would apply), that you pivot about the center when picking the direction it moves. Rules quoted in B clearly point out that you have no Move value for the unit, so with no Move value, you can't reform at all as any distance would be over. The die roll is not a movement value for the unit, it is a distance that the unit is moved. A subtle difference, but an important one. Also, under the compulsory moves section it states "Aside from fleeing troops, units that are forced to move in the Compulsory Moves sub-phase otherwise follow the normal movement rules, unless clearly stated." Now this may seem to favor the "I can reform" side. However, the rules for random movement are clearly stated. It says you can pivot, and then move the direction on the die roll. It doesn't state you can do anything else. Also, the Random Movement section talks about "move, charge, pursue, overrun, and flee - they cannot march" doesn't ever state reform. At best, I could see an argument to allow the squig hoppers to reform at the end of the move, as long as no model moves more than the distance rolled. However, in general, there seems to be too many conflicting rules. And Random Movement does take precedence over Skirmisher due to the fact that the normal movement rules are overruled by compulsory movement.

well some of us were not there to see who got what. that is what I'd like to know.

I think with space like that, you need to hold the 1st annual OFCC nerf gun battle.

The succubus model is so much better.

Did any of you actually read what I posted? or just skimmed it? Sheesh.

So if undead is touching their coin, do they get any benefit?

Dibs on the long fangs!

Update to my blog! One morghast down, another one on the way.

Well when it doesn't conflict with the Portland Strollathon, I'll consider it. :P