TheBeninator

@Ish Ah! Makes sense, this old English (or whatever it is) is heavy stuff.

Hobby Update!

For this unit of fast cav I wanted to try and keep a log of time that I spend on each process. This should help me identify places where I spend too much time. Many times will be longer than they aught to be primarily due to watching the Office at the same time. No pictures for today, but I went through and did some initial cleaning up of the bits for the light cav. Most everything looked pretty good. Mold lines were primarily on the horses and on the hats of the riders. Some chaff bits were stuck to the spear tips, and the connections from the sprue to the horse heads were in an awful spot (right in the middle of the horse face) so I cut those early as to not fix them later. 

In all I spent about 30 minutes cleaning these up, inspecting the bits to figure out roughly what I would be putting together, and washing the whole lot with soap and water as to better take on primer. Next step tonight will be primer white through the 'ol airbrush. Color scheme is still up in the air, but I was thinking of some slight alterations to the tone, going with something a little darker. There will only be 12 of these, so I was thinking of going with 4 total colors such that there are 3 riders who share a primary color, and who each have a different secondary color. Current ideas are:

Prussian Blue (which is darker than the peasant blue)

Dark Green (I have several options here)

"English Uniform" (basically a darker version of beige)

Dark Red (which oddly, is just my "red")

Horses will probably be a brown, a mahogany (reddish brown), a grey, and white (with a tinge of blue). Might drop mahogany for something else as it will start to blend in with the saddles too much.

On 11/12/2019 at 1:22 AM, Ish said:

What do you get when you combine a ten-hour graveyard shift and nothing much else to do during it?

• First Row (L-R)
  •  Per pale argent and azure
  • Barry of twelve azure and vert fimbriated sable 
  • Argent a cross gules
  • Argent a pale vert
  • Argent a cross tenné 
  • Per pale vert and tenné
  • Vert a cross gules fimbriated sable 
  • Tenné a pale gules fimbriated sable 
  • Quarterly azure and tenné
  • Azure two palet gules fimbriated sable 

Question....

Why do shields 5 and 7 have different descriptions? They are the same style, different colors.

Were you just making stuff up this whole time?

Hubba Hubba 😍

8 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

What is a T9A "Influencer"? Maybe a you-cylinder thing?

Any chance you could do a breakdown of what's "Good" about the daemon legions core choices. I have my own conclusions, but having never played and still being at the "decoding" stage of rules understanding, would be quite nice to hear some other people's understandings of my faction, especially the core.

Its like any influencer on You-Tube. They get money to get people hyped about a product. 

DL core is not per-se better than special choices, but since you are obligated to take the core here is the quick and dirty.

Imps - Can gain a spell to cast + ranged attack + 3+ Aegis from ranged. So they are basically a shooting unit that does not count against any other restricted category. They are reasonably fast, with scoring so they spend a few turns support shooting + casting, then grab objectives later in the game.

Succubi - They have 3 attacks per model. 3! That is freaking unheard of for core except for like chaos warriors with paired weapons. They are also OWS 4, which is fairly elite for core (dwarf/elf status). Strength 3 is not great, but if you are able to buff them to strength 4 you end up getting a lot of mileage out of small units of them. They will chew up other core.

Lemurs - R5 + Parry. Again, R5 is unheard of for core, they are a solid anvil

Myrmidons - S5 + Battle focus + FIER - Str 5 is also rare for core but certainly not unheard of due to great weapons.

Add to any of these units the choice of 5 different upgrades which allows you to further fill their role to the purposes of your list.

Core has to be thought of as a bag of lemons. You always have to take said bag of lemons, but being able to choose what you want to do with the lemons is really helpful. DL appears to have a ton of agency over these decisions. I don't know if there are any other factions that have close to as many options as DL.

22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Also, kinda unrelated, seems like there's a lot of battle reports being pumped out by players that don't paint their armies very well...I guess the time required to you-cylinder is too much to also get good at painting...lol.

I notice that too. Even in the European masters some players don't even paint their models. For demons, I think a lot of it has to do with the new book. People are still trying to figure out what they want their list to look like, so they hold off on painting stuff up. 

That said, there are some BR casters that have very good commentary and beautiful armies. I am a sucker for chihammer myself. Follow-Furion is also good for really well explained tactics, but he has a somewhat arrogant You-tube persona, and only has a handful of T9A BR. 

In general, I think most T9A BR are pretty basic in quality. It's difficult to produce one and there is little incentive since being a T9A influencer will get you 0 dollars from the T9A project.

Death stars are somewhat out of vogue, long gone are the days of winning a match because you have banner of the world dragon + a bunch of characters in a pheonix guard unit. The lack of Lemurs is likely just due to the specific meta that caster is coming from. Resistance 5 core is nothing to scoff at, demons just happen to have a lot of really awesome core options to compete with Lemurs.

22 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Eventually is a worthy goal and a good reason to shelve the siege tower models and consider building the rest of the army without them.

But, without the siege towers, the main reason to play daemons is gone, and now I'm left with total freedom in which army to play....Might still do daemons, but it's something to consider.

I have always been somewhat interested in Demons as a pure hobby army. You can literally just green stuff random bits and other stuff together an call it an abomination. 

I was at the coast this summer doing some crabbing, looking at all the dried and discarded crab claws and stuff all over the place. At a 28mm scale they would be terrifying. THey also have a crazy amount of 3D detail that would make them super easy to paint.

Certainly not a conventional approach to minis.

The T9A echos your desire for siege play. There is an enormous amount of homebrew built off the T9A engine, if you are still interested you should look there.

To say that T9A does not want siege rules is to not fully appreciate what the project is, what it’s goals are, and what resources it has to work with. 

Siege rules will happen eventually, as will a skirmish game, heck even an RPG. The timeline for these things is just far off.

Damn @Ish

That's some serious dedication to tincture.

When I do the heavy infantry ill come up with something that you don't have a name for!

Fun OCD fact. Every peasant (after the first 8 ) is composed of 2 main colors. Every shield is composed of those 2 same colors. The primary color of every peasant matches one of the colors of the shield that they are carrying, but never do both colors on the shield match the peasant colors.

 A little bit of order among the chaos!

You are going down “more handsome “ Ben! 

@valourunbound

All that are born can be born again.  March to war 2020 only happens once in a lifetime!

How the heck did Ben get the #1 spot?! Throw me in for the next rank. So long as I am ahead of John...

What do you get when you combine a 3 day weekend and some serious procrastination on Adulting?

A finished unit! Way ahead of the December schedule!

Heres a shot of the shields before I put them on.

I had planned on masking / airbrushing all the shields, but that turned out to be a pain in the butt and I was still getting crummy results. I just decided to go freehand with it. Afterwards I made an executive decision to use a black marker of sorts to outline (as per @Ish's suggestion) as to not displease the Heraldry gods. I did make up some unconventional symbols, and some of the stuff certainly came out a bit crooked, but hey! They are peasants, and I still have another 70 infantry on sprue, so I shouldn't get hung up on little details like that. 

Overall I am pretty happy with the unit. Not a whole lot I would change doing it again. Certainly some steps I could cut out of the assembly line.

Also, I did about a 50/50 dilution of the Strong tone with water, worked like a charm! Thanks @Andrewgeddon for the tip! Though now it occurs to me that you had used a thinning medium, not water, whoops! 😅

Next up is some light cavalry!

On 11/10/2019 at 9:41 PM, paxmiles said:

Would that work? You can tell, they barely fit (ramps retracted) on a 150x100 base. That's the space of 4x6 of 25mm square models. I don't know that they'd really work as unit fillers, kinda need something smaller than the unit itself to be a unit filler.

Looked around at the other army options. I do think this is the best fit. Though I'm also thinking that I might be trying too hard to force these models into the game and maybe it's a mistake.

Ah wow, yeah that's bigger than I was thinking.

You could also just use the towers as a big unit filler. It’d look pretty cool!

16 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...looks like Daemons got a new update. Not sure what's changed. Updated as of the 4th.

Looks like it was all just point balances. Changes to books are always highlighted in blue text within the AB. In addition, there is a change log at the bottom which has a summary of changes. Some of the blue text in the book is normally changed for clarification, there were very few examples during the last update of actual rules changes.

There will likely be 1 or 2 more minor point tweaks before they call this set of balance updates done.

It's an interesting process they use. The team gathers as much tournament data as they can together and looks at win/loss with certain armies and army composition. They then apply point changes to try and balance out the favoring of one unit over another. The team appears to want to try and do this once a year, since they can gather a decent amount of tournament data in a 1 year period. The data is by no means "all telling", but they use this as a chance to address over performing units/lists/combinations as well as help mix up the meta.

For instance, if everyone takes Myrmidons in a list, then Myrmidons will see a point hike OR all other choices will see a point decrease, or something in between. Its a tenuous process as you are trying to internally balance books at the same time as maintaining external balance. The point changes are all a little here, a little there, typically never enough to "invalidate" a list, but sometimes it means you have to take a couple fewer R&F models, or drop a magic item / upgrade.

5 hours ago, Andrewgeddon said:

So I missed Saturday and instead spent it in the ER (yay, fun!), but it looks like some of use will be at the WoW clubhouse on Sunday. I'm planning on showing up around 5, looking for a game!

You might not be able to finish a game if you show up at 5. I’m likely busy this Sunday.

3 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...definitely the possibility that I'm misreading things.

Omen of Savar, ah, with closer reading, it can join units, just not with existing characters attached. Interesting. Still can't take flaming attacks, but that is something. Still no wrath access, he's pride.

Harbinger can't take Wrath at all. He's just generic. No access to alternative marks as far as I read it. Could be missing something there. Would solve things if you could explain where I have it wrong.

Deciever is envy. No options there.

So as I read it, The Harbinger of Father Chaos can take "Manifestations of Father Chaos and those available to the General"

Vanadra's Scourge can be a general, and has access to Manifestations of Father Chaos and Wrath.

So, Vandras Scorge general allows Harbingers to take Wrath Manifestations, of which if you take the dominant version, pass that manifestation benefit to R&F within the unit.

It is certainly not an inexpensive way to get flaming attacks, but you do get a flying murder machine caster out of the deal.

2 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Let's see, not making big progress on this one. I'm staggered by the cost of getting so many khorne daemons and x-mas is coming, so I'm hesitant to blow my money on this one. Plus I seem to be very distractable on model projects, as of late. I'm second guessing if I want to play this game, or if I just like the idea of having an army for this game.

Another thing, bugs me a lot that I can't just pick a mark for my supposedly generic daemons. Like, each unit and character has a pre-determined set. And none of the sets are really khorne, each is kinda a mix. I guess it's better, probably, but it's deviation from my ideal, which bugs me. And it's annoying because they don't have pre-determined models for these, so it feels "forced" on what is supposed to be more free-form.

For example, I'd love to do a bloodletter commander. Well, my 25mm options are a wizard dedicated to "envy" and non-marked character (whom can't take marks). My bloodthirster, on the otherhand, is forced to be dedicated to "wrath." So my bloodletter commander can't be dedicated to the same mark as my bloodthirster. Not a huge problem, but it bugs me.

My next smallest character option is 50mm square and specifically can't join units. And that one must be dedicated to "pride."

Oh, and the bloodletters (and non-wrath characters) lack access to the upgrade/mark that gives them "flaming" attacks, despite the models having flaming swords. Yeah, just annoying. It's like I'm being told to ditch khorne, or play only a very specific army build.

Rules-wise, I kinda feel like daemonic legions would be part of the Order faction in AoS. It's just a very restrictive list, the kinda thing you'd expect from an army with an orderly mindset. Maybe I should start looking at the other army book options again.

Well the DL is the newest book. Since T9A is built on the framework of 8th edition, it borrows a lot of legacy concepts from that game. However, in order to not stagnate, it is moving towards a new identity for it's armies. Khorne does not feel like Khorne anymore because Khorne no longer exists. There are other projects that recreated 8th edition lore but just changed a few rules, T9A is different than that.

If what you are really longing for is a Khorne themed army, T9A is probably not the best solution. It is easy to get caught up in the similarities, since a lot of it is totally identical. But as with Warriors of the Dark Gods, DL was completely reworked and is something new. It had to shed it's old pigeon holed identity in order to achieve this. I have mad respects for the old universe, but that just isn't the direction of the game.

I think you may be confused about some of the list building aspects, as you can join a Savar, a Harbinger, or a Deceiver to a unit, in the cast of the Savar it can be the only hero in the unit. In addition, you can get Myrmadons to have flaming attacks if you also have a Harbinger who takes the wrath upgrade which also requires a Wrath GD. Yes, it sort of forces you to go with a "mono-manifestation", but that is how they are balancing the book. You cant just pick the cream of the crop from all the demon manifestations and expect the army to even come close to being balanced.

Conversely, you can skip the Greater Demon and always take manifestations from Father of Chaos to your Harbinger, or from the several manifestations hand picked that are unique to each unit. The number of combinations are staggeringly high.

Balance, whether we like it or not, is one of the primary motivators of why things in the books are the way they are. 

12 minutes ago, Andrewgeddon said:

Quick update! So I had planned on getting together for the first game with the Forest Folk on Saturday, but instead I thought it would be more fun to spend some long hours in agony at the hospital while I passed a kidney stone. SO, no games got played, and no real hobby progress, other than go get my metal minis that I need to strip soaking. Original plan was to use acetone, since I have had mixed results the last time I used Simple Green on metal figures, but supposedly 91% alcohol will do the job without destroying the bases, so I'm giving that a try. Hopefully I can do some scrubbing tonight. Please excuse the cool metal Ultramarine and the BA unicorn.

As for my list, here's what I'm looking at running. I think the double Blade Dancer units sounded more interesting, but I have the option of running a "Death Star" down the line too. I'm really curious how ST 4 guys with zero armor and 1 attack are supposed to put out the pain, but I guess we'll see!

-Forest Price, Sylvan Blades (Titanic Might), Blade Dancer, Sacred Seeds
-Chieftain, BSB Spear (Hunter's Honour), Blade Dancer, Aether Icon x2
-Druid, Master (Shamanism), Sylvan Blades, Bow
-10 Dryads
-9 Dryads
-10 Sylvan Archers, Musician, Standard
-10 Sylvan Archers, Musician
-5 Heath Riders, Heath Hunters
-Forest Eagle
-Forest Eagle
-11 Blade Dancers, Champion, Standard (Aether Icon)
-11 Blade Dancers, Champion, Standard (Flaming Standard)
-4 kestrel Knights, Shields
-Treefather
-Treefather

Is that ultra marine holding a fantasy axe? Awesome!

What is it about Simple Green that you did not like, not enough stripping?

Blade Dancers all have paired weapons right? Plus you can dance up another attack, so 20 attacks from a 10 dancer unit.

Sounds like a west side story knife fight.

Update!

So, hobby stuff stopped for a while there. Finally got back on and added a few more deets to the peasant horde. Weapons are now mostly done, have moved on to heads. All of this (in pic) was accomplished in perhaps an hour or so. Last touch is leather for the heads, leather for the boots, and leather for some weapon handle wraps. After that comes the shields, which will bog me down quite a bit due to masking.

Hoping to have the unit done by Dec as an arbitrary goal!

9 minutes ago, splinx said:

If anyone is interested in the Undead I have all three AOS (nasty AOS) starter boxes going cheap! 

@valourunbound

Quote

"What an opportunity to start a VC army!"

Points will start at 2k, and will increase by roughly 500-750 each time. I think the whole campaign is 5 or so matches, the scenarios and conditions of which depend on the results of players for Order/Chaos.

You should fill out the poll! Obviously you will not be held to these days, its just to figure out where we should generally try to schedule.

https://forms.gle/uiADYooHzoy5jPuY6

Does 15 blade dancers really count as a "deathstar"?

Seems more like a Victory-1 class Star Destroyer....

Huzzah!

@Andrewgeddon This is the perfect chance to break in your new forces of Good (SE)

@valourunbound What an opportunity to start a VC army!

@OreoGolem We need Orcs!

@Jason The Dwarven Holds would rely on you to be represented in this struggle

@splinx Will the dark elves heed the call of their chaos masters?

@Exile No better way to ease into a new ruleset

All others are highly encouraged to join! My Lizards and Dwarves are up borrowing if you don't have an army to play with.

Time to start taking a Cuatl with Pyromancy 😁

I’m interested, I imagine we could fill 8 slots pretty easily. With 3 rounds that’s pretty simple pairing.

you should start a thread for it. I’ll tag a bunch of folks to make sure they see it. You down to be the TO for it?