Lyraeus

2 hours ago, Mustache Dorn said:

My situation is thus: for the near future I am pretty much homebound, half-vaxed, with free time confined to evenings after my kid is in bed. would love to get a Combat Patrol game in (would actually be my first game in 9th), but would have to be masked in my garage (live in Milwaukie; have table, terrain, and booze) on a weekend evening. Anyone interested, ping me.

If I can get there via bus I should be fine. 

1 minute ago, Brother Glacius said:

Please excuse my ignorance, but I am not sure I understand this statement. From my understanding of Crusade, we all start out with 1000pts for our army. We then have the option of spending RPs to increase that army size (1RP - 100pts). We then purchase units that will fit within that cap for our army. Those units are static once purchased unless RPs are spent to change them.

My understanding of reinforcement points is that those points come out of your army limit for that game. So if we are playing a 500pt game and I want 100pts for reinforcements, my army on the table will only be 400pts.

In the context of a Crusade, this means if I want 200pts for Summoning, my Crusade list will actually only have 800pts of purchased units. So while I have 200pts in my army that is flexible, those 200pts will never gain xp or any other boons (or negatives) from the Crusade.

Lets say I am going to play a 500pt game against someone. I can either field 500pts of my purchased units, or some number less than that, and leave the rest for my summoning. Regardless, I will never have more than 500pts of units on the field and once I summon up to that 500pt cap, I cannot summon anything else, even if my summoned unit(s) are destroyed.

So how does this allow me to play at a higher point game?

The only thing I can think of, is that you are saying I can spend 1000pts on buying units. But when I choose to play and wish to use summoning, I can bring less than the cap and reserve points for summoning.

If the later is the case, then I don't really see that as unbalanced. I can't say I was ever concerned about the Crusade List. I would gladly build a 750pt list and reserve 250pts for summoning if it allowed me to "freely summon up to 250pts" in a game regardless of game point limit size. i.e. in a 500pt game, I could bring 500pts from my crusade list and still be able to summon up to the reserved 250.

The Pros and Cons of that approach are as follows:

Pro - I have the chance of putting more points on the table than my opponent. However, those points are capped based on my summoning reserve.

Con - My Crusade army has fewer unit options to choose from. The summoned units never improve. Summoning has inherent risks/costs associated with it already. I would also have to spend RP on more points in order to field higher point armies.

You dont need to take points away from your Order of Battle. Just the points from your list. You never have a Crusade Card for summoned units so they never take up room on your Order of Battle.

So, if you are playing a 500pt game and you bring 500pts you have no points to summon with. 

If you are playing a 500pt game and bring 400, you have 100pts to use for summoning. 

Part of the reason this is, is that summoning is extremely flexible. Playing against someone and you need nurglings to hold points, well you can summon those, maybe next game you need Demonettes to be annoying? You can. 

Now, how does this let you play a higher point game? Lets say you only have 1000pts in your Order of Battle but want to play the 1500pt Strike Force Mission as it will give you a bonus you want. Well you as a Chaos player can play with 1k and have 500pts open to summon with. 

I do not think that at any point a player should be able to bring in new units without paying for them. This includes Nids bringing back Gaunts as well as that also requires Reinforcement Points. 

1 hour ago, Salty Monkey said:

ok Im not taking Chaos cuz....my mind is chaos lol

🙂
 

Fair enough. 

1 hour ago, Brother Glacius said:

I'd say based on the praise that the Drukhari book has gotten in 9th compared to its power placement in 8th, I think you will just have to wait for the 9th ed version. It seems GW has learned that if you make everything in an army decent, then they sell more models. So I say play with what inspires you, and hopefully when the book comes out, you'll still have a decent army.

If Drukhari have not taught that lesson there may be no hope for GW

1 minute ago, Brother Glacius said:

Well actually, in the very first post you said no to summoning unless opponent agreed, and then use the system where you pay for summoned units out of your army allowance. So did I misunderstand? is it you can always use the "buy summoned units" system, or if you opponent allows, use the normal rules?

As I pointed out, paying for summoned units is not balanced. I could pay for a unit of 30 deamonettes, but then not get the roll to ever put them on the table. So not only did I just lose those points in my army, but the character who made those attempts gave up movement and risked wounds. So I get to fight with 820 pts vs his 1000pts.

Hence the request for a more middle ground approach. I don't want to make a game unfun for my opponent, but also don't want to hamstring my own list. I'd rather have a single ruleset so that its easier to maintain the list than to have to have to worry about managing two lists.

To use the summoning rules you have to get permission from your opponent. 

When you set aside the points you dont select the unit you are setting them aside for. If you set aside enough points for 30 demonettes but never roll for that many you can always get smaller units. 

Ok, I will compromise. You can do summoning but its still reinforcement points. This gives you an advantage as you can play at a higher point game against people while not having enough points in your supply for that but it is fine. 

54 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

To my understanding, the risks/costs are as follows:

I'm giving up movement of that character. So yes, they could become a summoning machine, but they aren't going to do anything else. Also, the summoned unit appears within a limited distance of the summoner. So if I'm hiding that character somewhere so that he can't get shot, then the range of his summoning is going to be restricted. 

The random dice roll determines failure and degree of success. So yes, you may want to summon that GD, but perhaps you don't roll well enough to do so? Not only that, but max of 3d6 using ritual summoning and odds are you don't get that GD (min 12 needed). Any double or triple could end up killing said character

Otherwise you need to succeed on a psychic test to attempt another summon and while less risky in terms of harming your character, still not guaranteed to get what you want.

There seems to be lots of avenues for failures with the added risk of killing off your own character.

I also do understand the concern that a player could totally abuse those rules in order to spam deamons across the table. 

That being said, if I have to pay for summoned deamons in my army, then their cost increases beyond their points due to the risks involved. That doesn't sound very balanced. In a Crusade situation, I'm also losing advancement for those units.

In light of that perhaps something can be found more in the middle. Maybe limit summoning to a single unit from a character at a time. Until that unit is wiped out, then the character can't summon anything else.

Or perhaps summoning units will have some negative impact on the rewards for an army, or perhaps the XP for a character? Maybe it costs XP to summon? 

Small community, just have a "don't be a dick about it" policy. This is supposed to be for fun and enjoyment of all involved.

Just tossing out some options to make summoning viable without being crippling or dickish.

Remember summoning is just 3d6 and then you pick what is being summoned. You dont need to pick then make the attempt. 

49 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

To my understanding, the risks/costs are as follows:

I'm giving up movement of that character. So yes, they could become a summoning machine, but they aren't going to do anything else. Also, the summoned unit appears within a limited distance of the summoner. So if I'm hiding that character somewhere so that he can't get shot, then the range of his summoning is going to be restricted. 

The random dice roll determines failure and degree of success. So yes, you may want to summon that GD, but perhaps you don't roll well enough to do so? Not only that, but max of 3d6 using ritual summoning and odds are you don't get that GD (min 12 needed). Any double or triple could end up killing said character

Otherwise you need to succeed on a psychic test to attempt another summon and while less risky in terms of harming your character, still not guaranteed to get what you want.

There seems to be lots of avenues for failures with the added risk of killing off your own character.

I also do understand the concern that a player could totally abuse those rules in order to spam deamons across the table. 

That being said, if I have to pay for summoned deamons in my army, then their cost increases beyond their points due to the risks involved. That doesn't sound very balanced. In a Crusade situation, I'm also losing advancement for those units.

In light of that perhaps something can be found more in the middle. Maybe limit summoning to a single unit from a character at a time. Until that unit is wiped out, then the character can't summon anything else.

Or perhaps summoning units will have some negative impact on the rewards for an army, or perhaps the XP for a character? Maybe it costs XP to summon? 

Small community, just have a "don't be a dick about it" policy. This is supposed to be for fun and enjoyment of all involved.

Just tossing out some options to make summoning viable without being crippling or dickish.

Sure but what stops you from taking cheapy character you dont care about and getting 300pts of free models with no real repercussions and now your opponent is playing 1k vs your 1300?

I am not saying you cant do this you just have to clear it with your opponent 

Week one Missions are up!

2 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said:

if that is the case, is it really worth it to have summoning? As I understand it, it isn't guaranteed for multiple reasons. Your character could get killed who can summon and you can fail the summoning roll (or even kill your summoner with perils). Not only that, but with chaos, you have psychic powers that affect summoning as well, which means they become useless too. 

Its a balancing mechanic. What would prevent you from summoning a Greater Demon T1 while hiding behind some Obscuring ruins so nothing can shoot you? 

3 hours ago, Brother Glacius said:

Can you expand on this a bit more. I'm thinking of going with Chaos Marines and have models for summoning deamons. So is this a blanket "cannot summon units" rule? or does it mean something else. I'm new to 9th and crusade.

So summoning can quickly break the game if we are not careful as it can be totally free units or free kills. 

If who you are playing against is ok with you playing with Summoning (@Salty Monkey, since I sense you moving to Chaos this counts for you too) then you should use the Matched Play rules for summoning so have points set aside from your normal list. 

So in a 1k game you could bring 750pts and have 250pts open for summoning if your opponent is ok with it. 

4 hours ago, Mustache Dorn said:

Thanks. Still getting used to Administratum and still have a bunch to flesh out. Army is in Battlescribe now so need to port over wargear, but will work on it this week along with unit names and fluff.

Careful. When you change the wargear on units it will automatically use up your Requisition Points. To avoid this you will want to delete the unit and remake it with all of its trimmings and fixings

1 hour ago, Mustache Dorn said:

Ordo Novoprætorio -- "New Huscarls" of the Imperial Fists have joined the war

looks like a fantastic start! 

I will note that it looks like you didnt add any wargear or rules to them so that might mess with you later on but we shall see. 

Been working on this tonight. 

I still have no idea what color to paint the weapons....

Made these last night and I am REALLY happy with these... lets hope I can paint them up well. 

1 hour ago, Salty Monkey said:

The Hetet are uploaded and ready for war!

Looks Fun!

3 hours ago, Mustache Dorn said:

Never mind. Figured it out. Coming out of the plague and not having played in a year this seems like a great way to wade back in. What’s the timeframe you expect this to run, or is it really open ended?

This particular one will be open ended. 

I will be adding campaigns throughout this that will allow you to bring the same Order of Battle from this into those allowing you to get relics from the pariah nexus and the like so you can grow and expand the same Order of Battle, OR if you are feeling adventurous, you can start a new Order of battle for those and bring it into this and have 2. 

This is your narrative for your force. 

I suspect you figured out I spend 2 RP on expanding my Supply Limit which is 1 Requisition Point (RP) for 100 extra points to my Supply. 

You start with 5 RP and can spend them on things like warlord traits, relics, etc

For those who have created an account, here is my Dark Hydra Raiding Party for my Drukhar this will give you an example on how things look

Week 1 Games for those who want to make up a game:

Combat Patrol: Max 600pts, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Agenda

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Incursion: 500-1200pt, Max 2 Detachments, 2 Agendas

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Strike Force: 1100-2000pts, 3 Detachments, 3 Agenda's

__________________________________________________________________

Week 2 Games:

Combat Patrol: Max 600pts, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Agenda

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Incursion: 500-1200pt, Max 2 Detachments, 2 Agendas

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Strike Force: 1100-2000pts, 3 Detachments, 3 Agenda's

1 hour ago, Munkie said:

Only 2 special weapons in those blobs of 20?! Why not 5 liquifiers in each, to really liquify!

https://pastebin.com/8gpfZwSv

There we go. Saddy the Wrack leader can only have a Hex Rifle or a Liquidfier but it works out. 

1 hour ago, Munkie said:

Only 2 special weapons in those blobs of 20?! Why not 5 liquifiers in each, to really liquify!

I had the amounts wrong. I will have to readjust the list. 

Let me know if you want to try Crusade @Commissar Chask

It is that time. We are playing in person again and so I want to start an Open crusade! This is not going to have a time limit, this is not going to be hyper restrictive. It is a true Open Crusade. These are your games, your narrative, your fun. I just ask that you post about the games you play in this thread!

I will be using Administratum to track games and Order of Battle. It will seem like extra work but it will allow you to keep track of everything. You will need to create an account and I will have the invite link up once I finish this thread. 

Invite code is b88f0c638def4fa9b8eb6eda658b7bfd

Here are some base rules to make this interesting and not just a smash your face in.

• Game rules RAW, but uses points at 1:20 ratio 

• OOB should be registered on www.administratum.net and joined in the Ordo Open Crusade 2021

• Opponent select the 2 units they think had the most impact and you select which one gets Marked for Greatness.

• Upgrades MUST be rolled not chosen unless they are a mission reward. To roll, use 2 dice and re-roll doubles. Select one of the two results you do not currently have.  You may re-roll dice that are a duplicate upgrade, separate from this.

• Weapon upgrades are individual per weapon – but if multiple weapons on the model are the same (i.e lascannon on each sponson) then you may auto gain the same upgrade on the second one with the later upgrade instead of rolling it.

• Rules disputes should be rolled off then clarified after battle. Please post the questions here and they can be ruled on.

• Mission selection is from a list of 3 missions (one of each size) -players may select any of the three. I will be posting these matches every Monday as well as the point spread. Yes, there will be Combat Patrols that are up to 600-750pts or Strike Force that can be played up to 2500pts. You dont have to play at that amount but you can if your opponent wants to as well!

• You can request games here or in the Game night thread. If you do end up playing the same person twice, change up the mission size and points so that there is some difference in games.

• CP or points summoning not allowed unless both players agree to a mechanic for that game. (I have made a Compromise on this. You can use the Summoning rules but it follows Reinforcement Points rules, so you need to set aside points to use for summoning. PLEASE do not abuse this)

• White Dwarf relics and crusade campaign book relics (such as Beyond the Veil, Plague Purge, etc) will be locked into special events using them.

• You do have access to Battle Honors and Weapon Upgrades in campaign books as long as they are not Campaign locked. Examples of this are War Zone Charadon or Piety and Pain has Battle Honors locked behind the campaign so they are options for you.

• CATCH UP MECHANIC: If your opponent fields 6 or more Crusade Levels than you, you may allocate an extra Marked for greatness at the end. In addition. for every 6 Crusade Levels more your opponent has fielded than you, your units gain an extra xp for the battle.       (i.e 0-5 difference is 1xp as normal per unit, 6-11 the underdog gets 2xp per unit, 12-17 the underdog gets 3xp per unit, etc.)

This is a bit of rules but they are there to help keep things moving. The Catch up Mechanic is there to help new people who come in to play or those who cant get a game in as often. 

Remember you can with your opponents permission play your crusade force against those who don't want to play a Crusade game. Just get their permission and let them know you have some special things outside a normal game!

Here are some extra Agenda's. These are from the Beyond the Veil book(let)

Week 8 Games:

Combat Patrol: Max 750pts, 1 Patrol Detachment, 1 Agenda

Mission Link

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Incursion: 500-1250pt, Max 2 Detachments, 2 Agendas

Mission Link

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Strike Force: 1200-2000pts, 3 Detachments, 3 Agenda's

Mission Link

5 minutes ago, Salty Monkey said:

I think Im going to try some cursed city, but its way to early for me to say it I can make it yet...

I shall remember this betrayal 😛 

@Commissar Chask If no one is wanting to learn to play, want to play?

Got a list Idea I want to build...

I am thinking of building this... its 1 Patrol of Dark Creed for the negative LD, with an upgraded Harmonculus with Helm of Spite, then 1 unit of Haemoxytes with Ossefactor, then 2 sets of 20 wracks with 2 Ossefactors each, 5 mandrakes, 4 raiders with Chainsnares and Grisly trophies. Second patrol is Dark Technomancers with another Upgraded Haemonculus (you can have 1 Master HQ per different coven/Cult/Kabal) he has the Nightmare doll so he has a 4+++ and he has the bring back d3 Wracks WLT, then I have 10 Haemoxytes with Liquidfiers, two sets of 20 wracks with 2 liquidfiers, then 5 Grotesques with Liquidfiers, 5 Mandrakes and 2 maxed Cronos. 1995 on the nose and I guess I could add a shock prow somewhere for kicks

I will have 40k. @Salty Monkey want to try the crons vs Drukhari?

Was great! Had fun and Tyler made me work for every point!