InfestedKerrigan Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I'm glad to see Tyranids got the Chaos treatment. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think you mean Robin Crudacce? If you really want, I can comb over your posts to nitpick minor spelling and grammatical errors, too, but it doesn't make me any smarter for doing so. Unless you count codex's in which case i have to say: Codex Space marines looked fine to me. I liked PLaying Sisters of Battle from the White Dwarf and he did some of that with Matt Ward (who I do not prefer). I'll admit: the old Tyranid codex was kind of a victim of timing. It was terribly timed. Given a few months of retrospect, i think that codex would have been a little different. It's nice that you like the SoB book, but the overwhelming response from other people, including other SoB players, is that it is amazingly bland and very weak, even compared to the White Dwarf codex. The fact that, as far as I know, it hasn't even placed well in a single tournament since it was released would lend credence to that idea. "If the Tyranid book was written differently, it wouldn't have been so bad" is not a defense. The later codices that improved on it were written by other authors- I don't think there's anything to really support the notion that Crudacce would have done better if he had been given more time. Codex: Space Marines is alright, but there's still some serious complaints to be had. Ask a Raven Guard player what they think of the book. On topic: Swarmlords look like a bad ass version of nemesor Zhandrek that acts like an Autarch Strategist, that instant kills everyone he sees, meets a shut down Librarian with this: P: +6'' synapse (not Sitw) [weak primaris] 1: FnP for unit and one additional unit (buffed) 2: Pin test at -2(maybe -3) [iirc same] 3: can run and shoot (the same) 4: minus d3 WS & BS to a unit for a round (nerfed) 5: nova 2d6+2 vs ld (can only take invul saves against) (same) 6: Warpblast in its current form (same) Dayam. He may be a lot of points, but he is kinda awesome. Now I have USED the Nemesor a lot. Let me tell you something: the ability to grant Furious Charge, Monster Hunter, or Preferred Enemy is awesome. It makes what looks like a really "okay" unit a lot MORE than okay unit for ITS cost. Hmm. I think they overdid the points on it, but I certainly see why. The reserve gambit is strong in this army... Maybe you didn't know what Swarmlord did before, but he took a MAJOR hit in effectiveness. First of all, he can't get Invisibility, Iron Arm, or Endurance anymore- all three of which were better than the powers he has now. Second, he doesn't let you reroll outflanking edges. Third, his Boneswords don't force the enemy to reroll invulnerable saves. That's a lot of strikes against him, and it's not to even mention the fact that he went up in price (albeit barely) and is still just as slow as he was before. T6/3+ isn't enough to get you across 24" or 36" of ground by itself when the other guy is shooting at you. (And with regards to the Tyranid psychic table- it's hardly bad, but the Primaris is almost entirely useless and the inability to access any other tables or guarantee particular power results, especially combined with the low mastery levels of Tyranid psykers, means that you can't really rely on having anything helpful.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 It's nice that you like the SoB book, but the overwhelming response from other people, including other SoB players, is that it is amazingly bland and very weak, even compared to the White Dwarf codex. The fact that, as far as I know, it hasn't even placed well in a single tournament since it was released would lend credence to that idea. Let's not drag SOB into this. I disagree with the above, but it really isn't on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 This dex depresses me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 me too my friend, me tooFor me the siren call are the broods of carnifex, but I think there is shenanigans with the mawlocs. With the potential to strike twice with a large blast template at str 6 ap 2 ignores cover and then STAY IN RESERVE, because let's be honest, we don't want them on the table..anyway. Is it a risky gimmick? absolutely, but I think I'll give it a go. I know I'm being a blow hard here, but...I would like to see a battle report between the 4th ed codex and the 6th ed codex :D. I do have a bit of good news..Happy Friday Gamers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 YAYAYAYAY, codex release day! Now to go pick it up and cry like a little child that had his ice cream stolen. I refuse to give up hope, at least for the first 6 months... then I may steel my brothers Eldar and Titan and go learn what it is like to play a winning army :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 For me the siren call are the broods of carnifex, but I think there is shenanigans with the mawlocs. With the potential to strike twice with a large blast template at str 6 ap 2 ignores cover and then STAY IN RESERVE, because let's be honest, we don't want them on the table..anyway. Is it a risky gimmick? absolutely, but I think I'll give it a go. Hmmm, that's interesting, I re-read how that works, and, you're right. Mawlocs could easily be doing good work on lots of things like broadsides and such. They are one of the few things that can do damage BEFORE interceptor kicks in, which gives them an edge against Tau, which, as I'm looking at this, seems to be the worst possible opponent for Nids (mostly because of the availability of ignores cover and high-strength shooting as well as loads of nasty rapid fire). Mawloc popping up underneath two broadsides has a real shot at taking them both out in one go. That's significant. I think that, with that in mind, that the HS slot will be the new Elite slot of this dex. Too much good stuff in the 3 slots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 I am going to try an Exocrine, because why not try out some long range plasma shots, 3x screamer killers, and a mawloc. Mawlocs have the potential to do alot of work against blobs too. One question though, does a large blast marker clear enough room to place the mawloc on the table? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Wait... If I am reading this right, SitW actually makes a psycher within 12" -3 LD. Not just for the psychic test, but just -3 Ld. That could be very useful for dealing with people that hide librarians in blobs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 That could be very useful for dealing with people that hide librarians in blobs.. What kind of monster would do that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 SitW is great and all, and I think SitW coupled with ye ald Deathleaper could be potentially devastating to psykers, it's the delivery system that's a concern. No more spore pods is TERRIBLE. The Trygon tunneling system is just not an adequate substitute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Seems to me this book is going to rely completely on pressure and board control. You're never going to have the damage output to fight straight up with Tau or Eldar. Fiddling with lists, I'm easily getting 5 FMCs *and* 4 oval base size normal MCs with around 80-100 gaunts. Throwing 3 crones and 2 flyrants in someone's face should, in general, give you the turn or 2 you need to get control of the table with mawlocs/exocrines/haruspex to clean up whatever they try to push out on objectives with. No, you're never going to table a competent player with a good list, but I think you can win an objective game against them with good positioning/movement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 5 FMCs not reliably coming in on turn 2 could also ruin your day. Starting lictors on the table would help with that problem... Maybe some interesting shenanigans to work with... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 If you really want, I can comb over your posts to nitpick minor spelling and grammatical errors, too, but it doesn't make me any smarter for doing so. It's nice that you like the SoB book, but the overwhelming response from other people, including other SoB players, is that it is amazingly bland and very weak, even compared to the White Dwarf codex. The fact that, as far as I know, it hasn't even placed well in a single tournament since it was released would lend credence to that idea. "If the Tyranid book was written differently, it wouldn't have been so bad" is not a defense. The later codices that improved on it were written by other authors- I don't think there's anything to really support the notion that Crudacce would have done better if he had been given more time. Codex: Space Marines is alright, but there's still some serious complaints to be had. Ask a Raven Guard player what they think of the book. Maybe you didn't know what Swarmlord did before, but he took a MAJOR hit in effectiveness. First of all, he can't get Invisibility, Iron Arm, or Endurance anymore- all three of which were better than the powers he has now. Second, he doesn't let you reroll outflanking edges. Third, his Boneswords don't force the enemy to reroll invulnerable saves. That's a lot of strikes against him, and it's not to even mention the fact that he went up in price (albeit barely) and is still just as slow as he was before. T6/3+ isn't enough to get you across 24" or 36" of ground by itself when the other guy is shooting at you. (And with regards to the Tyranid psychic table- it's hardly bad, but the Primaris is almost entirely useless and the inability to access any other tables or guarantee particular power results, especially combined with the low mastery levels of Tyranid psykers, means that you can't really rely on having anything helpful.) I won 5 tournies out of the first six I played in using the white dwarf sisters codex. By the way, using a list that included the canoness and her command squad, plus one of everything in the codex. So unfortunately your internet "sources" will have to bark up another tree. Didnt Mikhailenin go 3rd at NOVA using sisters and gk allies? And I've seen pre tre have success. Crudacce did fine on the codex. So...my point was...in all fairness, perhaps we should not be so hasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 5 FMCs not reliably coming in on turn 2 could also ruin your day. Starting lictors on the table would help with that problem... Maybe some interesting shenanigans to work with... Ummm, don't reserve them. O.o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Seems to me this book is going to rely completely on pressure and board control. You're never going to have the damage output to fight straight up with Tau or Eldar. Fiddling with lists, I'm easily getting 5 FMCs *and* 4 oval base size normal MCs with around 80-100 gaunts. Throwing 3 crones and 2 flyrants in someone's face should, in general, give you the turn or 2 you need to get control of the table with mawlocs/exocrines/haruspex to clean up whatever they try to push out on objectives with. No, you're never going to table a competent player with a good list, but I think you can win an objective game against them with good positioning/movement. Considering your track record with Nids, I appreciate your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah, that's actually the best endorsement we could hope for. If galahad911 is positive about the book, I'm kinda sold. I'll just be glad to see those nids back on the table though, Steve. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Yeah, my game against Steve (Nids vs Orks) at the 2011 OFCC was one of the best/toughest games I've ever played. A highlight of the event for sure. Everyone deserves to have your Hive Fleet Hurricanes on the table more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galahad911 Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ummm, I''m not saying I'm "positive" about it. It's the same book with points reductions and a few new models. That is what I said was what all I *really* needed from the 5th ed book, but I am disappointed. What I am saying is that it's going to be viable in the hands of the right players with the right expectations. This is definitely no Tau or Eldar that would be much easier to new or inexperienced players. You *will* have to out-play the other guy if he's running those armies. But I don't think you'll be so outclassed that you simply have no chance. And really, that's all I ask for, myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ummm, I''m not saying I'm "positive" about it. It's the same book with points reductions and a few new models. That is what I said was what all I *really* needed from the 5th ed book, but I am disappointed. What I am saying is that it's going to be viable in the hands of the right players with the right expectations. This is definitely no Tau or Eldar that would be much easier to new or inexperienced players. You *will* have to out-play the other guy if he's running those armies. But I don't think you'll be so outclassed that you simply have no chance. And really, that's all I ask for, myself. From you, that's a glowing endorsement. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 10, 2014 Report Share Posted January 10, 2014 Good to hear. It seems you will need a horde of gaunts and mc support. I am just bummed that a infiltrate army did not really improve. It seems like an ambus option would have fit the fluff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 This dex depresses me. Ditto. It's not there's nothing good in here, but it feels really lazy compared to the other books, all of which get neat special rules and army-wide bonuses. Hmmm, that's interesting, I re-read how that works, and, you're right. Mawlocs could easily be doing good work on lots of things like broadsides and such. They are one of the few things that can do damage BEFORE interceptor kicks in, which gives them an edge against Tau, which, as I'm looking at this, seems to be the worst possible opponent for Nids (mostly because of the availability of ignores cover and high-strength shooting as well as loads of nasty rapid fire). Mawloc popping up underneath two broadsides has a real shot at taking them both out in one go. That's significant. Mawlocs are reasonably solid, although they do have a significant issue in actually striking on target- they're about as accurate as firing artillery blind, which is to say not terribly accurate at all. That said, they are an extremely cheap W6 monster that can try and take out enemy heavy infantry before they get a chance to do anything to you, and that's hardly bad. Sadly, since they hit side armor rather than rear armor now, vehicles are a major problem for them. I am going to try an Exocrine, because why not try out some long range plasma shots, 3x screamer killers, and a mawloc. Mawlocs have the potential to do alot of work against blobs too. One question though, does a large blast marker clear enough room to place the mawloc on the table? It does not. The Mawloc's base is the large oval one, which is longer than (but not quite as wide as) the large blast marker. You will very commonly need to repeat the the attack in order to clear enough space. SitW is great and all, and I think SitW coupled with ye ald Deathleaper could be potentially devastating to psykers, it's the delivery system that's a concern. No more spore pods is TERRIBLE. The Trygon tunneling system is just not an adequate substitute. New Shadow, while somewhat worse than the old one, is pretty fine at the end of the day. The fact that it is still a blanket effect and the same range is probably good enough, and against lower-Leadership psykers it's actually really strong. Removing Mycetic Spores was an incredibly arbitrary decision, though. If they didn't want to make a model for them, they could just add a "Mycetic Spore" upgrade that let the unit Deep Strike. I won 5 tournies out of the first six I played in using the white dwarf sisters codex. By the way, using a list that included the canoness and her command squad, plus one of everything in the codex. So unfortunately your internet "sources" will have to bark up another tree. Didnt Mikhailenin go 3rd at NOVA using sisters and gk allies? And I've seen pre tre have success. Crudacce did fine on the codex. So...my point was...in all fairness, perhaps we should not be so hasty. *shrug* And I've won a billion billion matches using nothing but a single naked Inquisitor with no other models in my army, but that doesn't prove anything, either. I believe Mikhail's 3rd place finish was using the old WD codex, unless I'm greatly mistaken, not the newer one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Yes, it was with the old version. New Celestine isn't auto win at Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 11, 2014 Report Share Posted January 11, 2014 Ditto. It's not there's nothing good in here, but it feels really lazy compared to the other books, all of which get neat special rules and army-wide bonuses. Yeah, I was really hoping for a really unique feel (my personal stab would be to have no armor saves and just higher T and FnP where applicable). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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