Trading for a GK army, what is essential?

[JamesBeadle]

I am considering a trade for a GK army. It has lots of footsloggers and terminators a few characters, six razorbacks, three dakka dreads, and two dreadknights, but it lacks fliers and any Inquisitorial troops, not even an inquisitor HQ. Oh, there are a couple of assassins as well, so those might qualify as inquisitorial models. 

 

Anyhow, I don't know much about the GK and so am wondering if there are any essential models like Landraiders or Fliers I will need?

[cadaver2k]

You will need a stormraven, it sounds like you are getting a lot of good starting units.

[spacewolved]

Yea your going to want a stormraven. And coteaz. Most list in gk want to run coteaz, draigo or Crowe for the troops they unlock.

[Guest]

I am considering a trade for a GK army. It has lots of footsloggers and terminators a few characters, six razorbacks, three dakka dreads, and two dreadknights, but it lacks fliers and any Inquisitorial troops, not even an inquisitor HQ. Oh, there are a couple of assassins as well, so those might qualify as inquisitorial models. 

 

Anyhow, I don't know much about the GK and so am wondering if there are any essential models like Landraiders or Fliers I will need?

Make sure you don't get duplicates of the specialist assassins, as they are special characters (vindicare, callidus, eversor, and cullexus). Death cult assassins are unlimited, so no worries there.

 

Also, apoc play or normal games? The dreads and dreadknights will probably be both fielded in HS slots, so you really will have too many for a standard FOC.

-Pax

[HeroZero]

Unless you field them as venerable dreads + dreadknights.

Also get a stormraven.

Get an inquisitor model they are fantastic allies.

Most people do go with coteaz,Crowe or draigo as the HQ but don't discourage other choices either. Even a generic HQ is pretty boss.

[JamesBeadle]

It comes with a Finecast Draigo to make the Purifiers (or Paladins? I don't know the list well enough) troop choices. I figured I'd want a flier, thanks.

 

@ Pax: I don't really know at this point. Probably just standard formation stuff.

[WestRider]

Draigo unlocks Paladins (the super-Terminators) as Troops. Crowe is for the Purifiers.

[Guest]

Unless you field them as venerable dreads + dreadknights.

Completely true, though I rarely see it done in 6th. Just loads of points for a very minimal difference in durability and offensive power.

 

I will note that GK dreads do have force weapons and can use them thanks to the psychic pilot option. This is rarely done due to the amazing psybolt rifle dreads, but it remains an option.

-Pax

[HeroZero]

I consider it +X point upgrade to gain a force org swap and potentially shrouded psyrifledreads who gladly hide behind aegis lines.

 

Fearsome fire power for sure.

[HeroZero]

Pick up a box or two of the dreamforge or wargames factory troops. They make great inquisitorial henchmen if you do decide to run Coteaz.

[ChaosGerbil]

A core of 10-40 Strike squad guys is a solid choice. Go mostly swords, then one hammer per 10 guys and maybe a halberd on the champion, plus a couple psycannons (that's how most people run them.)

 

Assassins you can make from Dark Eldar Wych plastics and imperial bits. I used Wood Elf hooded heads for most of mine. You can probably convert a Coteaz.

 

You'll only need one Stormraven or Landraider, since your basic guys are so expensive you don't have a lot of room for 200+ point vehicles. By the way my landraider died in all 3 of my games as ringer at TSHFT.

 

With the razorbacks, they don't do a lot but you have incredibly cheap scoring units with the henchman, 3-6 guys at 4 pts. each plus special weapons if you want. The Dreamforge guys are more detailed than the Wargames Greatcoat Shock troops, they are as tall as a marine but slimmer. The Shock troops are guardsmen sized.

 

Many people like to drop one or two terminator Paladins deep striking to contest late game.

[intrizic]

Assassins you can make from Dark Eldar Wych plastics and imperial bits. I used Wood Elf hooded heads for most of mine. You can probably convert a Coteaz.

 

 The Dreamforge guys are more detailed than the Wargames Greatcoat Shock troops, they are as tall as a marine but slimmer. The Shock troops are guardsmen sized.

 

 

+1 great conversion advice here

also if you have Sedition Wars, those infantry models work pretty well too

[JamesBeadle]

I don't own  Sedition wars, but I am really impressed with the Dreamforge models. I think those are the way to go. Do I really need 40? Most of my games will feature mostly marines, but I can see a lot of value in three or four five man squads of troops in Razorbacks.

 

This is what the army actuallty consists of:

 

Grey Knights:

 

6 Razorbacks 

6 * 5 man purifier squads 

12 additional troops 

3 Dreadnoughts 

2 Dreadknights 

20 Terminators/Paladins 

1 Castellan Crowe 

1 Finecast Dragio 

2 Metal Librarians in terminator armor 

Eversor Assassin 

Vindicare Assassin 

Codex 

[Guest]

If finecast models are painted, be wary as I remain unclear on how well you can stripe and repaint those models.

 

Here, summary of the list:

6 light tanks

3 medium walkers

30 PA infantry

20 TDA infantry

2 MC infantry

6 random characters

Army book

 

Oh, and 12 models with no listed appearance/role.

 

So, list is probably 4k+ of models, with more HQs than you'll likely field in a single list. It's a good collection, but hardly what I'd consider a essential or core army (because it's far too many points in guys). At 2k, you'd really be fine with an even half of that list. (1/2 HQs, assassins, PA infantry, and so forth). That would be an essential or core army.

-Pax

[JamesBeadle]

That wasn't really what I was asking. I just wanted to know what I would need to be able to play them well. Essentially my take away is get a Stormraven and some inquisitorial troops, so that is my goal.

[CaptainA]

Right now with what you have, you have a lot of army types you can play.

 

You can go Crowe and Purifier as troop route.

You can go Draigo and play a Draigowing route.

Use the purifiers as strike squads and spam razorbacks.

 

Stormraven would be very good to add. If it were me I'd do that first and try a couple of lists with what you have.

 

I've been playing a Purifier list as of late that isn't optimal but it has been fun and has some punch.

[Guest]

That wasn't really what I was asking. I just wanted to know what I would need to be able to play them well. Essentially my take away is get a Stormraven and some inquisitorial troops, so that is my goal.

Quite honestly, I think the GK book plays best with allies. It can play by itself, but I think the change from 5th to 6th hit the GK codex the hardest. It still has many amazing units, but they can struggle in other areas.

 

I've had decent results with a GK Necron force, as the crons deal with tanks better than the GK and the GK are much more melee able than the crons. As an added bonus, crons offer an infantry blob option to the GK, which is something they lack without breaking the bank in points (12 henchmen per squad max vs 20 for cron warriors).

 

As for your essentials, yeah, that's the typical GK force. I'm not sure it's the best route, but GK aren't my main army, so I'm unsure. In alternative to the SRs, you could probably get a LR force to function in fundamentally the same capacity - the SR/LR debate is dramatically dependent on the opponent's ability to deal with either.

 

I will argue that GK will probably have lots of issues in apocalypse or escalation without an allied detachment. GK already have some issues with multiple high AV targets, as their reliable vindicare usually dies as soon as the opponent figures out what he can do. Henchmen could work here, but your looking at IG BS and you typically pay more per model with a special/heavy weapon than IG would.

 

You will probably want to include a fortification for AA in a pure GK force, as they don't have any save the SR (SR's are great, but it's nice to have the enemy softened up prior to the SR's arrival). The Vengeance Batteries with Quad-Las would be pretty ideal. You can also get some nice options with manual fire if fielding actual grey knights or special character assassins.

-Pax

[JamesBeadle]

Thank you gentlemen. I do plan to get a fortification and a Storm Raven for them at some point. I'd like to get them an inquisitor (Cortez and a few regular characters). I was looking at the henchmen, and I was not impressed. They are much more expensive than IG allies, so it would seem to me to make more sense to get allies rather than invest in a bunch of henchemn, no? I think I will get 40 of the Dreamforge infantry and a couple heavy weapon boxes for them. I can use these as either henchmen or IG I think. May be a LR battletank or demolisher eventually. First though is the Raven. Thank you again.

[Guest]

Thank you gentlemen. I do plan to get a fortification and a Storm Raven for them at some point. I'd like to get them an inquisitor (Cortez and a few regular characters). I was looking at the henchmen, and I was not impressed. They are much more expensive than IG allies, so it would seem to me to make more sense to get allies rather than invest in a bunch of henchemn, no? I think I will get 40 of the Dreamforge infantry and a couple heavy weapon boxes for them. I can use these as either henchmen or IG I think. May be a LR battletank or demolisher eventually. First though is the Raven. Thank you again.

Think of the INQ henchmen as the melee/elite versions of the IG henchmen. They can function like this very well, but they add up quickly.

 

If you do go with IG allies, beware that the Vendettas are probably a better buy than the storm ravens, so be sure you need that model, as it's very expensive.

-Pax

[JamesBeadle]

Thanks Pax. None of this is going to happen quickly. I don't have much at all to invest. More likely I will eventually trade for it once  have had a chance to play my GK for a bit, and since I basically only get to play during the summers...

[HeroZero]

Although once you do get some.money it is really hard not to want to bring double vendettas and a stormraven as your fliers. They are pretty good.

INQ henchmen are an excuse to field more vehicles with psycannon bolt Heavy Bolters or ass cannons. Otherwise guard vets beat them in every conceivable way.

 

I think the strongest GK builds maximize down range high volume firepower and have sufficient bodies to get it done. GK can out spend themselves faster than every imperial army.

[JamesBeadle]

Its an elite army that is really good in hand to hand combat, which from what I can see has been really nerfed in 6th ed with overwatch rules and such. Every casualty really hurts and there is a lot of AP2 in armies now (except Orks it seems). I will enjoy messing with them to see if I can make them work, but it will be a long time before I have fliers for this army.

[Guest]

Its an elite army that is really good in hand to hand combat, which from what I can see has been really nerfed in 6th ed with overwatch rules and such. Every casualty really hurts and there is a lot of AP2 in armies now (except Orks it seems). I will enjoy messing with them to see if I can make them work, but it will be a long time before I have fliers for this army.

Orks have it, but they really pay for it in unreliability (zzap gun, shokk attack gun, kustom mega blasta). In assault, they have the klaw, which is not a lacking weapon when they all have furious charge. Melee isn't nerfed, but getting to melee is - melee itself is actually very effective in 6th.

 

As for GK, they can form a ranged army, if you want. That codex is very flexible and 6th building rules only reinforce that flexibility by offering them very cheap stationary vehicles.

 

In terms of GK, I'd call them a gimmicky army. Necrons are one too. It isn't an insult, just a style of play. The GK feature lots of round-about (aka special rule heavy) ways to solve your problems. I actually got necrons to ally to my GK for the double gimmicky effect, they're both fun armies. 

 

For comparison, TAU are a rather straightforward shooty army. Tau pretty much have to shoot to win. GK, on the other hand, will unlikely win without using several odd special rules, half a dozen unconventional weapons and a special character - I like this about the GK, but it can make them hard to profile. Don't try to make your GK army all shooty or all melee, as that isn't really how they play. Go find lots of round-about methods to solve your problems, that's how you'll win.

 

Anyway, for an early player, I suggest Thawn, his unit of terms, and some inexpensive scoring henchmen (like 2 units of 10 acolytes for 40pts each) for a core troops, maybe a few transports in there too. Yeah, this means taking coteaz. You don't have to run them later, but I find them to be a very good starting point for the army. Thawn is a gem in the respect that he's a scoring unit that doesn't stay dead. I think, as you play, you'll probably stop fielding those troops in favor of other combinations, but I've found them a pretty good starting point.

 

As for gimmicks, so very many in that codex. Let's say you want a barrage weapon, but you notice the GK lack one. You can gain what is effectively a barrage weapon via a purgation squad and either an orbital strike or a conversion beamer. As 4+ cover is very common, the "drawback" is mostly found in the required psychic test the unit must take each turn. You could even have them fire the aquilla strongpoint's D weapon, which would deny the cover save that their psychic power grants, while allowing the aquilla to ignore TLOS limitations. Gimmicky?...yeah.

-Pax

[JamesBeadle]

It looks like I have a deal going through for two NIB Valkryies, and 18 headless/weaponless Dreamforge stormtroops and plasma guns. I just ordered 40 more stormtroopers and an accessories kit. I think I am set for allies. I will have to get a commander for them and a couple chimeras. They are mainly to get scoring bodies on the field and the fliers to support my GK. 

[Lord Hanaur]

So what is the outcome here.  What has the OP decided is ESSENTIAL?