Deathwatch questions

[PumpkinHead]

A friend is starting into 40k and he decided on Deathwatch as his first army. He was at the game store without me... Just starting into the marine world myself I am looking for any advice people might have to help with building a Deathwatch list that is semi competitive and how list building works. Can he include a devastator squad in his list? Devastators aren't listed on the kill teams and I only glanced through his codex supplement, but I assume so. I told him I assumed all marines could be included in his list, but if he wanted to make kill teams then that was Deathwatch's cool tactic. Also, are kill teams troops, elites, etc? I do not know how to classify them in list building.  I guess I could have consulted battlescribe, but haven't yet.  Any help would be appreciated.

[Inquisitor66]

Ok. Deathwatch are VERY good.

 

He only wants troops....why?

 

Essentially he can take 5x marines, then add 5x other marines of any type to the same squad (they need to have the same type of armor) then he can combat squad them.

 

For example here is a valid troop choice

5x intercessors 5x outrider bikes 

Then you combat squad that and you get 5x obsec outriders

This works the same with smol marines 

5x tactical, 2x bikes, 1x vanguard vet, 2x terminators would be 1 valid troop choice. All of them equipped very generously.

If he wants to play infantry, and wants to buy a good variety of it, there is no better army.

 

Read the troop choice entries in the codex carefully, that is where the power lies.

[Ish]

When you are writing you army list, instead of adding the standard units, as a Death Watch army you can instead add one of the four different KILL TEAM units. A KILL TEAM unit can be comprised of models from several different datasheets:

 

The PROTEUS KILL TEAM contains: 1 Watch Sergeant; 4 Deathwatch Veterans (see Deathwatch Veterans). You can add any 5 of the following models to this unit: Deathwatch Veteran; Deathwatch Terminator; Veteran Biker; or, Vanguard Veteran.

The FORTIS KILL TEAM contains: 1 Intercessor Sergeant; 4 Intercessors (see Intercessor Squad). You can add any 5 of the following models to this unit: Intercessor; Assault Intercessor; Outrider Squad; or, Hellblaster Squad.

The INDOMITOR KILL TEAM contains: 1 Heavy Intercessor Sergeant; 4 Heavy Intercessors (see Heavy Intercessor Squad). You can add any 5 of the following models to this unit: Heavy Intercessor; Agressor; Inceptor; or, Eradicator.

Last, but not least, the SPECTRUS KILL TEAM contains: 1 Infiltrator Sergeant; 4 Infiltrators (see Infiltrator Squad). You can add any 5 of the following models to this unit: Infiltrator, Incursor, Reiver, or Eliminator.

 

 

[PumpkinHead]

Are kill teams considered troops?

[Ish]

4 minutes ago, PumpkinHead said:

Are kill teams considered troops?

Yes, they are Troops. 

[Ish]

Oh and to further elaborate, Deathwatch may not field Assault Squads, Bike Squads, Devastator Squads, Scout Squads, or Sternguard Veteran Squads...

On the other hand, their special Deathwatch Veterans Squads all come with a boltgun, special issue ammo, and a power sword stock (thus making them like Sternguard Veterans, but better) and up to four of them can swap out this kit for a Heavy Weapon (and thus act like a Devastator Squad, but better)... 

They also have access to special snowflake weapons like the (in)famous Deathwatch Frag Cannon which is either a 12" Heavy 2d3 D1 Blast or a 24" Heavy 2 D2. Then there’s the Infernus Heavy Bolter which is basically a heavy bolter and heavy flamer into a combi-weapon, because @&$# Genestealers. 

[PumpkinHead]

Where does it say they can't take those units?

[VonVilkee]

3 hours ago, PumpkinHead said:

Where does it say they can't take those units?

Haven't gotten the new book yet but regardless of if they can or can't you don't want to. If you want standard squads don't deathwatch.

 

If you deathwatch you take the kill teams and veterans. As for buying boxes you can buy any of those power armors and use them as the stuff you want. Devastators box physical purchase is a veterans squad when building the list.

[PumpkinHead]

Interesting. I will pass on the info.

[Ish]

Don’t know the page number, but it’s the same section of the codex that says Black Templars can’t have Librarians, Dark Angels can’t have Stern- or Vanguard Veterans, etc.

[Taitertot]

So are you only allowed to have one kill team?

[Inquisitor66]

1 hour ago, Taitertot said:

So are you only allowed to have one kill team?

No, they are a troops choice. The deathwatch version of tactical squad. 

[Ish]

2 hours ago, Taitertot said:

So are you only allowed to have one kill team?

They use the Troops Choice slot of the force organization chart for whatever Deatchment(s) you use. For example, if using the Battalion Detachment requires between 3-6 Troops units, so you could have up to six of them.

I’d suggest getting a copy of BattleScribe and playing around with list builds in that program. Although it does have the occasional error or incorrect rule, it’s usually pretty accurate... Certainly reliable enough for casual clubhouse gaming. You’d want to triple-check it for accuracy before entering a tourney, but it’s not like any of us can go Outside right now.

[Taitertot]

I’ve been out of the game for 14 years and just picked it back up. Trying to get my kids into it as well. Still trying to figure out how everything has changed and how to best utilize deathwatch. 

[Taitertot]

Dumb question, but the deathwatch kill team set are the death watch veterans correct?

[Ish]

The boxes called Ten Man Kill Team and Deathwatch Kill Team contain Deathwatch Veterans, the basic building block for the Proteus Kill Team. They’re all “Firstborn” Marines.

 

[Inquisitor66]

3 hours ago, Taitertot said:

Dumb question, but the deathwatch kill team set are the death watch veterans correct?

You can also get intercessors and phobos marines and buy deathwatch upgrades to make another kind of deathwatch troop choice

[VonVilkee]

Pssst...https://popgoesthemonkey.com/collections/deathwatch 

Icon add ons for just about any kit.

 

 

 

 

[Sgt. Rock]

I'm kinda curious about Deathwatch as well, but I noticed that they really cut back on the special issue ammunition, particularly that they completely took it away from the Primaris marines. Seems like poor design for a new line they're trying to force down your throat to take one of the most iconic abilities of the faction and yank it away from them. Does that really have a significant impact on the faction and how they play?

[Ish]

I like that they’ve restricted access to Special Issue Ammunition to just the “firstborn” Deathwatch Veterans, it encourages their use and makes them distinctly different than the Deathwatch Intercessors.

Might not make the most narrative sense (“I’m sorry Brother Augustus, you’re too tall to use this bullet.”) but it makes sense to me as a game mechanic.

[Sgt. Rock]

Oh, for sure, but it just seems like an odd business decision, when they're trying to push Primaris as the new normal. Like, they released this nifty new combat patrol box, and none of the models in there can use the SIA, which, again, is a pretty iconic feature of the faction. Just seems weird to me.

[dalmer]

13 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

Pssst...https://popgoesthemonkey.com/collections/deathwatch 

Icon add ons for just about any kit.

 

 

 

 

Thank you SO much for that website link, I just bought a ton of stuff

[Ish]

25 minutes ago, dalmer said:

Thank you SO much for that website link, I just bought a ton of stuff

Pop Goes The Monkey is a dangerous, dangerous business for the wallet.

[VonVilkee]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

Pop Goes The Monkey is a dangerous, dangerous business for the wallet.

Yep, but so super cool for shoulder icons and stuff. 

[Lyraeus]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:53 PM, PumpkinHead said:

Where does it say they can't take those units?

Space marine Core book page 124.

 

Kill Teams make the units inside them troops. So for instance the Kil Team with Heavy Intercessors, Eradicators, Outriders, and Aggressors would be a troop unit and it could still be combat squaded. So id you wanted 5 Heavy Intercessors and 5 Outrider bikes you can, then you can combat squad them, and they both would be troops and obsec.