Grey Knights Next?

[pretre]

Frankly, I think the SW codex has gotten too weird.  Thunderwolves are just too kooky IMO.  While I appreciate why some would like them, they bug me.  

You're wrong and you should feel wrong! :)

Too kooky is just the opposite of the 4th ed Chaos treatment though.

[fluger]

Yeah, I just like more of the standard SM styles.  To me, Space Wolves have always been about Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Wolf Guard Terminators, and Long Fangs.  

[pretre]

Yeah, I just like more of the standard SM styles.  To me, Space Wolves have always been about Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Wolf Guard Terminators, and Long Fangs.  

There's plenty of ways that you can play 'standard SM'. I want crazed space vikings from a death world covered in wolves. I've always loved them that way (since end of 2nd to 3rd).

 

The great thing about it is you can just play a different Company of wolves that doesn't focus on the parts you don't like. For example, Ragnar is pretty traditional with his Drop pods full of BC, GH, etc.

[intrizic]

When I post I don't think i explain myself very well, i'm working on that.  Also, I'm usually at work, not on break when I post, so my posts tend to bit sporadic and quick, neither of which lend to explanation.

 

Disclaimer: I've only spent about 40 minutes with the SW codex and it's way early on the GK ( so I admit, I'm a bit chicken little about GK at the moment).  Also, I don't care about fluff as far as codex design goes, but I respect other peoples perspectives about stuff like that.

 

One of the issues that jump out at me about the New SW codex is that the freedom to build what you want has been reduced, before from wolf guard ( in any armor) to the Long Wolf Sgt could be equipped exactly as you wanted.  That has been removed to a significant extent imo.  To me that was what made the SW codex great, build variety.  Which is what the 4th ed CSM codex had.  For me build variety = mOAR flava.  Power alone doesn't give you build variety, if anything it stagnates a codex.

 

For GK, if it's a fluff thing, ok I can understand that.  But the removal of the inquisition from the codex ( yes I know allies ) reduces build variety.  There is some AMAZING utility in those henchmen squads, and I'm not just talking the power of the DCA either.  I remember the gosh, 3 ed? GK codex, there wasn't a lot of build variety there, so please forgive my chicken little, but I can't get excited, or hell, even interested in going back to something that resembles that.

[pretre]

You can get wolf guard with any armor in squads (including lone wolves etc)

[AbusePuppy]

Inquisitors don't own while armies. I'm sorry that the way you built stuff was for ridiculously huge amounts of henchmen but realistically a single inquisitor thing plus any other army cad should be enough for tourneys and for fun play you are easily covered.

Inquisitor Coteaz, who my army was based around, would like to disagree.

 

Three squads of non-ObSec henchmen just isn't very much. It's fine to use as an "allied" contingent, but since I was running Inquisitorial units are the focus of the army, that doesn't really work for me.

 

 

When was the loss of Psychic Pilot confirmed? Last I heard those army builder shots were from an earlier version of the dex.

 

I meant Inquisition, not GK, for losing Psychic Pilot. Obviously that part makes sense, but it still ends up being one more thing that the army used to be able to do that it can't now (without really gaining anything substantial to compensate.)

[Guest]

Inquisitor Coteaz, who my army was based around, would like to disagree.

 

Three squads of non-ObSec henchmen just isn't very much. It's fine to use as an "allied" contingent, but since I was running Inquisitorial units are the focus of the army, that doesn't really work for me.

To be fair, this is the only edition where Coteaz could do that. It wasn't a DH thing, just in the GK codex and then copy-pasted into the INQ codex.

 

If you recall, the WH entirely lost their Arbites unit entry. Inquisition also lost their Orbital Strike, save for the one on Karamazov. Daemon hosts and Death Cult assassins had major changes, WH lost most of their INQ specific anti-psyker gear. All the assassins, save the vindicare, are horribly nerfed in the current GK book and aren't part of the INQ book. The INQ also lost their Land Raider access via dedicate transports to the inquisitors. On the FW end, INQ lost their aquilla lander and arvus lighter dedicated transport access.

[VonVilkee]

I actually kinda like that it is hard to make a battle forged inquisitor force. They come in say hey you do this now...very few warriors actually trust and respect Inquisitors. Fear them yes, work with them long enough to become battle forged? Not so much...

[Lord Hanaur]

Don't know about that. The majority of SOB players I talk to enjoy the new book.

 

Although you do have a point about it being the longest serving book. It still wasn't their codex though, it was the witch hunter codex.

I emjoy the Sisters of Battle book, personally.  It isn't 100% what I wanted but it never is, so big deal on that.  It is functionally very dangerous and competes well in every mission i can think of.

[pretre]

Here's the big kit bundle for the GK

 

 

£130 ($215) for 22 models

 

I'll leave it for those more familiar with the range to figure out the saving

Suppose to save about 56$

[pretre]

 

 

From Brovius over at Bolter and chainsword:

Psilencer is ranged force weapon. And:

 

~Psycannons became Salvo 2/4 as expected. Heavy Psycannon has a dual profile, area saturation is the same (Heavy 1, large blast) but has a Salvo 3/6 option too.
 ~Purifiers inflict Soulblaze on all melee attacks, Incinerators have Soulblaze as well.
 ~Librarians are cheeeeeeeeeaaaap. We're talking ML3 (still in TDA) for the price of a current Psyriflemen dread (unfortunately Psybolts really are gone now)
 ~Brother-Captains are ML1, can be upgraded to a GM (+1A and ML2) for the same price as the GM's current ML-upgrade. Still under the 200pt mark.
 ~Nemesis Force Weapons have a few reworks. No more +1 invuln in melee for swords, halberds are +1S instead of +2I and the warding stave is +2S, AP4 and grants Adamantium Will.
 ~Paladin Apothecary is the same price as the current Apothecary upgrade (a solid 55pts less) and becomes a character. As reported, NFWs now cost points to upgrade, the previously spoiled figures are correct.

~The Titansword is +3S and AP2, all NFW have Daemonbane (successful Force activation grants rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons.

~NDK is a Monstrous Creature (character), same base cost, and all it's options got cheaper. PT is 45 points less than before, and the melee upgrades are dirt-cheap. With how awesome Psylencers are now, you'll be glad to know the Gatling Psylencer dropped 5pts.

Falchions are bought as a pair, S: user Specialist weapons. Just the one attack still.
 GKT pricing is real, but they do have to pay for melee weapon upgrades, which are one price no matter the model using them. Special weapons are bunkered into PA and TDA price-points though (which BCs and GMs have access to, no more Ballistic Skill tax!) and a GM with Psycannon clocks in at just over 200pts.

 Psycannon/sword GKTs are silly cheap now, slightly less than a Paladin. GKTs are the future, people!

 EDIT: Regular banner is 12" bubble of rerolling failed morale and pinning checks and +1A to GKs in the squad.

 

RELICS!!
 ~The Soul Glaive is a halberd that lets you reroll failed Force tests, and while Force is in effect, the weilder rerolls to hit, wound and armour pen rolls. Costs as much as a GK Strike.

~The Bone Shard of Solor gives the weilder a 3++ while within 12" of a Daemon, increasing to a 2++ for Daemons of Khorne within the same distance. Half a GK Strike in points
 ~Domina Liber Daemonica grants 1 extra psychic power but has to be rolled on the Sanctic chart. The bearer and all friendly GK units within 6" reroll 1s on psychic tests from Sanctic. Costs as much as a GKT Psycannon
 ~Cuirass of Sacrifice is TDA with FnP and IWND, costs 5 points less than a GK Strike
 ~The Nemesis Banner is a 12" Fearless bubble for GKs, GKs in the squad get +1A and Daemons treat the fearless bubble as dangerous terrain, but is pretty pricey and only available for Paladins (as is the Brotherhood banner).

~The Fury of Deimos is an Assault 3, 36" master-crafted Storm Bolter with Precision Shot. Not too bad, same points cost as the Bone Shard.

 Sanctic is repeated in the book (so no new powers), squads have the same psychic powers as they do in the FAQ, except that Purifiers have Banishment, Hammerhand AND Cleansign Flame. BCs, GMs and Librarians have the same power access as before. Draigo has Gate of Infinity!
 No new characters or units as predicted/previously rumoured.

Still no Psycannon upgrades for vehicles.

And more:

 

Another interesting change: Psyk-out grenades changed a fair bit. Work like defensive grenades when charged by Psykers, can be thrown and they inflict Perils on one randomly determined Psyker in the squad that is hit by it (so like Mindstrike missiles but limited to  one Perils, doesn't need to hit the Psyker, just his squad which is interesting).

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/292163-grey-knights-7e-codex-rumor/page-8

[pretre]

Grey Knight Rumors - Aug 2014
    Few questions;


    A )can you write down what NFW do now? (I will miss that +2 I from hellbard, that is quite big hit, but I guess that's the way GW wants to shift meta from CC to shooty)

    B ) No more psy-razors?

    C ) Mind strikes are in/out?

    D ) Draigo is Lord of the War? any buffs?

    E) How are paladins priced now ?

    F ) Any SM additions into new GK codex to replace missing Inq stuff?

    EDIT: BT's questions answered as follows-

    a) NFWs all have Daemonbane (while Force is active, they also allow rerolls to wound and armour pen against Daemons)

    B) Unfortunately, no

    c) Replaced with Stormstrike Missiles, S8 AP2 concussion, but we have the throwable Psyk-out grenades which are similar to Mindstrike. Better vs. one Psyker in a squad, worse vs. squads of Psykers.

    d) Yep, LoW treatment for him too. Titan Sword is S+3, AP2 and he's 30pts less. No force org manipulation though.

    e) Same as now, minimum squads of 3. Apothecaries are a whole Paladin cheaper. Land Raiders are dedicated transports (same for GKTs)

    f) Nope, no new units at all which is a bummer. We're expected to ally to get armour-cracking tools now.



    Purifiers can't deepstrike still, neither can Purgs.
    Only change to Psycannons was the Salvo 2/4 profile, so still 24" range and rending.






        Is there any Army Wide rule to make us better at Deep Striking?



    Nope, and the deepstrike bonus is only for the formation that was shown in WD (It is in the codex too).
    There's a biiiig formation though (fittingly called a GK Brotherhood) with a pretty awesome benefit. If you take...

    1 Grand Master
    1 Brother Captain
    3 Strike squads
    3 Terminator squads
    2 Interceptor squads
    2 Purgation squads
    1 Dreadnought
    1 NDK

    ...you get Rites of Teleportation (as per the other formation) and Psychic Brotherhood (While the GM is alive, all models in the formation harness Warp Charges on a 3+). It's only something viable in bigger games and the specific nature of the force means you've only got three mastery levels' worth of non-Sanctic powers to benefit from it.

    NDKs will be the big thing for popping vehicles, but our answer for fliers is still going to be fliers of our own.



    EDIT: Psylencer is rng24", S3, AP-, Heavy 6, Force. I wasn't joking about that. Funny how just that one word makes such a huuuuge difference to how we look at the weapon, huh.

[pretre]

Grey Knight Rumors - Aug 2014
    Oh, I only just noticed this. Greatsword is a Specialist Weapon that's master-crafted. Looks like it's not worth the upgrade anymore. The vanilla pair of Powerfists (Yes, they retconned Nemesis Doomfists!!) are a better option.

    Only formations are the WD-spoiled one and the Brotherhood I posted earlier (which is strikeforce but better, with restrictions).

    The Aegis is as per the FAQ, all GKs have Purity of Spirit (Which is just the rule that means GKs only Perils by rolling two or more 6's when using Sanctic powers unless otherwise stated (I think this means they'd still Perils if they failed to cast Vortex of Doom).

    TGS is the warlord chart, basically. Warlord traits are:

    1) Daemon-slayer- Warlord gains Hatred: Daemons and when casting Banishment, harnesses Warp Charges on a 2+

    2) Hammer of Riteousness- Warlord and unit have Hammer of Wrath

    3) Unyielding Anvil- Warlord and GKs within 12" have Stubborn

    4) First to the Fray- A nod to poor Mordrak, Warlord and unit automatically arrive first turn when Deep Striking and can reroll the scatter

    5) Perfect Timing- Warlord and unit gain Counterattack

    6) Lore Master- Warlord knows one more psychic power than normal, must be generated from Sanctic


        Bionicman, on 19 Aug 2014 - 3:26 PM, said:
        Yeah, thank you Brovius for your efforts.
        Psilencer is S3 ???




    Sorry, typo. Psylencer is still S4. Storm Raven is still Fast Attack.




    I skipped past this earlier when I was talking about the BHC, but Heroic Sacrifice is back in a lesser form. It's not tied to a psychic test but it's just a single attack, rolling to hit and wound normally. No instagibbing EW models, sadly. Herald of Titan is also gone. I also missed where Crowe has The Perfect Warrior too, so he does have to always issue/accept challenges (he's a challenge king anyway, since he gets AP2 from Smash and rerollable saves from Blade Parry).

[Malindle]

Well now. That's quite the bit of interesting info. I'd be unhappy about my Paladins, but now Draigo can go toe to toe with Abaddon again, which pleases me. And, hell. They're still scoring. I'll just go Unbound.

 

The Psycannon options are very nice. Kind of sad I got rid of my NDK's. And if plain-jane terminators/Apothecaries got cheaper, I'll be happy.

 

Pity about the Psybolts/Psyflemen, though.

[pretre]

15) Teleport Attack - 1 VP if you killed a unit with a GK unit that deepstriked, shunted or was teleported by Gate of Infinity this turn

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[fluger]

I love you