McNathanson Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Since there's a strong possibility that next year's OFCC will use the Swedish Comp system, maybe with a minimum score of 10 (and maybe a max of 18 or so), I thought it would be good to start getting used to how it works. Just scoring my own army from this year got me something like 9.2. This was a surprise to me because I thought I was using quite a few "soft" units (Darkshards, Corsairs, Black Guard) and nothing really abusive (just 5 warlocks). But even so, the characters in my army (Dreadlord with Giant Blade and L4 Sorceress) really hit me hard on comp scoring. I made a spreadsheet that shows roughly what the penalty/point is for each of my units. I say roughly, because some of the penalty depends on what else is in my army (affects the comp penalty), and what non-comp-affecting options I give them (affects the cost). By dropping my L4 to a L3, and combining my two units of 10 Darkshards into one unit of 20 Darkshards (something I was thinking of doing anyway) I was able to get just exactly 10 comp. I encourage you to comp your OFCC 2014 army, and see what that system rates as "hard". At least for the Dark Elves, looking at the various scores in my army gives a rough pattern that anything under say 5 "penalty/points*100" is roughly "soft", anything over ~10 is "hard" and over ~20 is "OP". For example:20 Darkshards = -10 Comp/285 points*100 (just to make it more readable) = -3.51 L3 on Dark Steed with Ring of Hotek and Dispel Scroll = -36/265*100 = -13.58 6 Warlocks = -24/150*100 = -24.00 Anyway, interesting and something to definitely get your head around well in advance of OFCC 2015, as it could easily affect your army build to have to get over 10 comp! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Keep in mind that this year's lists were 2800 points, whereas the swedish comp model is made for 2400 point lists. Still, it would be good for us all to start getting used to the system, so I'll take some time later and through down a few possible lists with their ratings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well, I'm sitting a a 5.9 with my dark elf list. That is the reason I will not play dark elves for OFCC. This is my tournament list and tournaments and tournament prep are the only times I play the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 what did your dwarfs comp at MN? mine got a 16... i bet yours was even softer than that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 My lizards got 12.6 from this year. Next year.I'm at a 14 flat. Seems reasonable. Note: Swede comp.punishes hordes,msu, spam and deathstars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 given I'm not the most experienced with comp rating I believe my list came in at a healthy 15.9. (using 300 as a starting point) I felt like it played like a 15 most of the event. the list gave up points like candy at Halloween but could also tear up a unit if I was fortunate enough to get a combo charge off. next years list is currently looking to be a bit softer, coming in around the 18 mark. but when you field skeletons as your core it's almost inevitable. it helps knowing to stay away from the brokenness that blender lords bring :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of Flanders Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 My OFCC army was an 11 which seemed reasonable. One thing I find curious about the Swedish system that I'd be interested in the opinion of others is the "no magic =+8pnts" thing (at least for DE). In the old days, a no Mage list generally was a weakness, but it also was a bit of a RPS sort of thing in that the army would be very strong against certain armies, but be crippled by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 what did your dwarfs comp at MN? mine got a 16... i bet yours was even softer than that! My Dwarf OFCC Open list comps at 16.9. I actually received +3 for the anvil of doom. In all honesty, I don't think it has an accurate way on accouting for runes taken with certain characters. I think certain builds should get comped harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kremmet Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Do you mean back in the day like 6th and 7th ed because I routinely ran lists with no mages (or very few) back then and consistently placed well in competitive no-comp events against a wide variety of armies. My proposed dwarf list comps at an 18, but that's without SoM which is something Swedish doesn't take into consideration. Even assuming I didn't bring my SoM monster I still would've been over a 15 which seems...off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted October 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 My Bretonnia list rated at 12.3. I think it's substantially weaker than my Dark Elves list but maybe I'm wrong!2 Lords on Warhorse kitted to fight heroes (they don't blend units at all but they are dangerous for characters and monsters) BSB on Warhorse 2 L2 Damsels on horse 1 L1 Damsel on foot 8 Knights of the Realm 49 Men at Arms 5 units of 10 Bowmen each 29 Grail Pilgrims (including Reliquiae) 8 Grail Knights 2 Trebuchets The Trebs are a hard hit to comp of course, and the characters account for most of the rest. I'm still building the army but when it's done I'll be very curious to try it out against a few of the armies I've faced with my Dark Elves and see how it fares. It definitely has a couple good tarpit units which my Elves lack, but even at 30 models the Grail Pilgrims won't last long against a lot of the Elite CC units out there. Anyway, I think the main point is that this Bret list is definitely within the proposed OFCC range of 10-18. I'm wondering if more people would rate their lists and post examples. For example I think MN posted his DE tourney list scored a 5.9 or something, which seems right as I think he would go mostly unchallenged at OFCC with that list. I'm especially curious how some of the armies that folks were concerned about would rate. One problem though is that the comp system doesn't include scores for supplement books like Monstrous Arcanum, so if the army had those we'd have to guesstimate. Anyway :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Here's my 2.5k Ogre army and it's comp score. Slaughtermaster w/lore of TGM, level 4 wizard, fencer's blades, glittering scales dispel scroll (WS 10, -1 to hit) Bruiser w/BSB, rune maw (ignores spells successfully cast at the unit on a 2+) Hunter w/stonehorn, giantbreaker, sword of might, enchanted shield (S7, 3+ armour save) 6 Ogre Bulls w/full command, ironfists, look-out gnoblar (allows "LOS" rolls with only needing 3 rank and file models) 8 Ogre Bulls w/bellower, standard bearer, ironfists 10 Gnoblars w/trappers (dangerous terrain tests for every model in a unit who completes a charge against them) 10 Gnoblars w/trappers 10 Gnoblars w/trappers 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, ironfists 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, ironfists 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, irionfists Sabretusk Sabretusk Sabretusk Gnoblar Scraplauncher Stonehorn This army comps at 14.6. If I were to take a 2.8k army I add the following: Stonehorn 10 Gnoblars w/trappers Comp Score: 13.4 The stonehorns and mournfang take the biggest hits. There are a few things which surprise me with Ogre Kingdoms comp: 1) No modifiers for a Slaughtermaster taking glittering scales 2) A positive modifier for taking lore of the great maw. These spells, other than the "6" spell, are great for augmenting an army. With a 20+ to cast, I could give all units within 12" regen. Imagine that thing going off on 2-3 stonehorns....good luck chuck on taking them down. 3) A positive modifier for taking a stonehorn as a mount. You ignore templates hitting both rider and mount because the special rules for the stonehorn state that any shooting attacks are randomized which I believe is a benefit of its own which should ignore a positive modifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Here's my 2.5k Ogre army and it's comp score. Slaughtermaster w/lore of TGM, level 4 wizard, fencer's blades, glittering scales dispel scroll (WS 10, -1 to hit) Bruiser w/BSB, rune maw (ignores spells successfully cast at the unit on a 2+) Hunter w/stonehorn, giantbreaker, sword of might, enchanted shield (S7, 3+ armour save) 6 Ogre Bulls w/full command, ironfists, look-out gnoblar (allows "LOS" rolls with only needing 3 rank and file models) 8 Ogre Bulls w/bellower, standard bearer, ironfists 10 Gnoblars w/trappers (dangerous terrain tests for every model in a unit who completes a charge against them) 10 Gnoblars w/trappers 10 Gnoblars w/trappers 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, ironfists 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, ironfists 2 Mournfang Cavalry w/heavy armour, irionfists Sabretusk Sabretusk Sabretusk Gnoblar Scraplauncher Stonehorn This army comps at 14.6. If I were to take a 2.8k army I add the following: Stonehorn 10 Gnoblars w/trappers Comp Score: 13.4 The stonehorns and mournfang take the biggest hits. There are a few things which surprise me with Ogre Kingdoms comp: 1) No modifiers for a Slaughtermaster taking glittering scales 2) A positive modifier for taking lore of the great maw. These spells, other than the "6" spell, are great for augmenting an army. With a 20+ to cast, I could give all units within 12" regen. Imagine that thing going off on 2-3 stonehorns....good luck chuck on taking them down. 3) A positive modifier for taking a stonehorn as a mount. You ignore templates hitting both rider and mount because the special rules for the stonehorn state that any shooting attacks are randomized which I believe is a benefit of its own which should ignore a positive modifier. Gnoblars!!! Seen one other Ogre player bring them and I think they're totally fun and the trappers caught the other player off guard completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think gnoblars are great. They're a speed bump that can actually kill things before they die and they don't cause panic checks for ogre units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I think gnoblars are great. They're a speed bump that can actually kill things before they die and they don't cause panic checks for ogre units. Gnoblars are awesome! I had a unit hold up Skullcrushers in two different games at the OFCC for 2 combat rounds each. Epic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 My OFCC 2014 list: Slaughtermaster, General, Magic Level 4, Lore of Beasts, Charmed Shield Butcher, Level 2, Lore of the Great Maw, Iron Fist Hunter, Iron Fist, Beastkiller, Dragonhelm Hunter, Longstrider, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem (7) Ogres, Look-Out Gnoblar, Iron Fist, Full Command (8) Ogres, Look-Out Gnoblar, Iron Fist, Full Command (20) Gnoblars, Trappers (20) Gnoblars, Trappers (4) Leadbelchers, Musician (4) Yhetees (4) Yhetees (4) Sabretusk Pack (4) Sabretusk Pack (1) Stonehorn, Harpoon Launcher (1) Giant (1) Giant TOTAL: 2799.0 That list SwedeComp score is a 19.2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Possible daemon list for next year: Lord of Change - Level 4, Tzeentch, Exalted Gift, Lesser Gift Herald of Tzeentch - Level 2 Herald of Nurgle - Greater Locus, Greater Gift, BsB 19 Horrors - Standard, Musician 10 Horrors 23 Plaguebearers - Full Command 4 Screamers of Tzeentch 3 Beast of Nurgle Beast of Nurgle Beast of Nurgle Burning Chariot of Tzeentch Burning Chariot of Tzeentch The list comes in at 11.3. It is more than likely going to change from this format by next year, but it is a model to work towards. Also, it helps that my nurgle models are all done, because the tzeentch stuff is going to take a long time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Gnoblars are awesome! I had a unit hold up Skullcrushers in two different games at the OFCC for 2 combat rounds each. Epic! You were my inspiration for taking gnoblar trappers. You told me how awesome they are and what they are able to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 You were my inspiration for taking gnoblar trappers. You told me how awesome they are and what they are able to do. I suspect my experiences are outliers from the norm, but they did great for me. I would suggest more than 20 if you have any real expectations from them. And keep them near to your general as well. But that is the beauty of Gnobblars: My expectations were absolutely nonexistant for them. That fact that they did much of anything was all gravy! I should also mention that between the two units I had they managed to kill/contribute to killing a number of Raindogs WE models. Sharp Stuff is actually useful, especially vs. T3! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I suspect my experiences are outliers from the norm, but they did great for me. I would suggest more than 20 if you have any real expectations from them. And keep them near to your general as well. But that is the beauty of Gnobblars: My expectations were absolutely nonexistant for them. That fact that they did much of anything was all gravy! I should also mention that between the two units I had they managed to kill/contribute to killing a number of Raindogs WE models. Sharp Stuff is actually useful, especially vs. T3! Nice, I just wanted them as dangerous terrain bumps. If I have a chance to kill models who charge them before combat begins....I'll take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Nice, I just wanted them as dangerous terrain bumps. If I have a chance to kill models who charge them before combat begins....I'll take it. That was about all I expected from them and they did manage a few dangerous terrain wounds over the course of the event. Points well spent in any list I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I also love the fact that they are dirt cheap and don't cause any form of panic in Ogre units. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Pardon me, I came here looking for the "Gnoblar Trapper" thread. It seems that I have found it! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Pardon me, I came here looking for the "Gnoblar Trapper" thread. It seems that I have found it! Title says to discuss your comp and your army. I had gnoblar trappers commped in my army and I am discussing why I took them in my army. So, you are very welcome Mr. Rudra34 ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 You know what's better then 10 Trappers? 300 Gnoblars. 3 x 100 would have only been 159 comp points out of 300. Too bad I sold them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Reasonable numbers of Gnobblars don't count for diddly in SwedeComp. As in less than 50 Gnobbers per unit amd those are only -4 comp points per unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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