WestRider Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 AgentP actually already posted the full Rules for it in the very first post of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted June 13, 2015 Report Share Posted June 13, 2015 excellent well then if its okay with him Ill steal it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 So, I need help in fleshing out the war convocation. The basic formation clocks in at 1455pts. That includes the following: 10 Vanguard 5 rangers 5 infiltrators 5 ruststalkers 1 dunecrawler 1 dragoon 1 dominus 2x3 destoyers 1 knight paladin The question is what to do with the residual 395 pts. Now, let me state at the outset that I'd prefer not to go the drop pod allied route. As I see it, there are a number of options, but I'm not sure which is best from a competitive standpoint (and I'm building this for competitive) POSSIBLE OPTIONS 1. Add another knight. 2. I change to a knight errant, expand the dragoons to a unit of 3, expand the rangers to a full 10 (allowing 3 special weapons), add a third unit of destroyers, and add a second dune crawler. 3. Add a kastelen robot unit and expand the dragoons to a unit of 3 4. ...some other combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think larger squad size is the way to go for units without transports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I like option 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm leaning towards #2 as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 After getting briefly distracted by the new marine codex, I'm back on the hobby horse (pun!) with my war conclave. I love painting this army. It paints well, and quickly, and is looking great. Here's the painting list for my collection: TO BE PAINTED: Dominus Kataphron Destoryers DONE Kataphron Destoryers Kataphron Destoryers Kataphron Breachers Kastelen Maniple (ranged) DONE Kastelen Maniple (close combat) 10 Vanguard DONE 10 Rangers Dunecrawler DONE Dunecrawler Dragoon Dragoon Dragoon Knight DONE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Pics or GTFO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 19, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Put LEDs in the knight too. Will post pics this weekend 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I want you to put LSD in the knights instead. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 Guys stop licking my D weapons....sigh...I should never have put LSD on that knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted June 19, 2015 Report Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'm more interested in the scenic bases for the Kataphron Destoryers I can picture a chopped-up Falcor represented across several bases and a dead Atreyu ground beneath the lead Kataphron's treads Ah, fun with typos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 AgentP I'd put the destroyer squads up to 5 man squads. That's an additional 4 Destoyers - but they'll cover much more space and put out LOTS of shots. Additionally if you lose 1 you don't need to check morale. More INFILTRATORS! They are fast, and very shooty/punchy but need numbers. The aura they project can win games- exploit it with max numbers. Another Dominus? Another Relic? Cognis Heavy Grav Cannons on a 5 man squad of Destoyers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I thought of putting the infiltrators up to 10, but damn almighty that makes them an expensive unit. I'm not sure 360 points can be justified. But I'd be willing to experiment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Having seen Infiltrators in action a number of times recently in our league games... I'm not impressed. They're just so fragile for how much they cost, and while they are reasonably quick, that one turn of shooting they have to weather will often do them in. I feel like the Castellan plays best to the army's strengths, at least outside of adding Drop Pods (which is the "right" answer to a lot of your problems, but it's understandable that you're trying to avoid it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted June 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 The Kastelen Robot Maniple? Interesting. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. I love those models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 I feel like the Castellan plays best to the army's strengths, at least outside of adding Drop Pods (which is the "right" answer to a lot of your problems, but it's understandable that you're trying to avoid it.) Pods can't transport MCs. Dreadnoughts, but not MCs... Not sure if you were suggesting it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 No, he was advocating Kastelans instead of Pods, because AgentP doesn't want to use Pods, even tho they're the easy choice to fill in the List. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Having seen Infiltrators in action a number of times recently in our league games... I'm not impressed. They're just so fragile for how much they cost, and while they are reasonably quick, that one turn of shooting they have to weather will often do them in. I feel like the Castellan plays best to the army's strengths, at least outside of adding Drop Pods (which is the "right" answer to a lot of your problems, but it's understandable that you're trying to avoid it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 Having seen Infiltrators in action a number of times recently in our league games... I'm not impressed. They're just so fragile for how much they cost, and while they are reasonably quick, that one turn of shooting they have to weather will often do them in. I feel like the Castellan plays best to the army's strengths, at least outside of adding Drop Pods (which is the "right" answer to a lot of your problems, but it's understandable that you're trying to avoid it.) I've not had much issue with their survivibity 4+6++, feel no pain, 2 wounds and stealth. They have always done me right- and I've got 6 games in with them now. Granted my first 3 games were a tourney and I was running a silly list- but by the third game I had em together enough to pull off a tie. Sure they drop to s6 fire- but they have a few tricks up their sleeves and give you a really quick moving option to an otherwise brutally slow army I've got a number of games in with the KASTELANS and I'm just ok with them. They are a very Death Star feeling unit. They are hard to kill- but also don't really do much other than very slowly slog around the field and soak up fire. I think 1 maniple of them would really bun me out with it's damage output for the points investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 20, 2015 Report Share Posted June 20, 2015 The Kastelen Robot Maniple? Interesting. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on that. I love those models. The big advantage to the Kastelans is that they shoot hard, melee hard, and are hard to kill (when kitted right.) BS3 is obviously a big limiter, but T7/3+/5++ is hard to break, and the ability to "reflect" shots on 6s with saves- any 6, remember, no matter the kind of save you're taking- is a big discouragement for a lot of things shooting at them. With most MCs, throwing random Boltgun wounds at them will often plink off a wound or two, but with a Kastelan it can be rather counterproductive. Moreover, when given a pair of Phosphex guns, they spew out rather a lot of AP3 shots per turn and add some utility to the rest of your army with the cover reduction/charge reroll. Being able to swap modes makes them very flexible as well- you can bunker up in the early turns as you advance, then take a spot on an objective and throw nine AP3 shots downrange in the mid-game, and if a charge goes off, you can always swap over to bonus attacks. They're good for your army because they support two of your major themes (shooting/melee hybrid, tough targets.) They give you some much-needed anti-light vehicle firepower and another countercharge unit to help support the Knights and Sicarians. And, while they're hardly cheap, it's hard to beat the efficiency of a 120pt MC with bonus stats and rules. I've not had much issue with their survivibity 4+6++, feel no pain, 2 wounds and stealth. They have always done me right- and I've got 6 games in with them now. Granted my first 3 games were a tourney and I was running a silly list- but by the third game I had em together enough to pull off a tie. Sure they drop to s6 fire- but they have a few tricks up their sleeves and give you a really quick moving option to an otherwise brutally slow army I've got a number of games in with the KASTELANS and I'm just ok with them. They are a very Death Star feeling unit. They are hard to kill- but also don't really do much other than very slowly slog around the field and soak up fire. I think 1 maniple of them would really bun me out with it's damage output for the points investment. I would disagree very strongly on the Infiltrators; S6 shooting is extremely common in tournaments (not the least because of Eldar), and many armies bring ways to ignore cover in one form or another- they have a few good survivability tricks, but they are extremely vulnerable to some of the most common guns around. Moreover, while they are not slouches in a fight, neither are they particularly exciting in most cases, especially as you pay Terminator prices for them. They are relatively fast (especially with Scout), but that alone isn't enough to get them to the enemy given their vulnerability to enemy shooting and morale/pinning. Kastelans aren't really quite a deathstar, at least when run in a minimum-sized unit (2 robit + 1 nerd). Expensive, certainly, but very hard to drag down and able to project a large "Do Not Enter" bubble around themselves for most infantry. Even without any charges or special modes they are easily enough to shred most infantry and vehicles (as well as a lot of other MCs) in combat. Area denial tools can be a good thing to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanvoodoo Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 I'm just going from my experience with them. If you are going to not run things cause of t3 then you'd be better off ignoring admech skitarii altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 It's not "they're T3 and thus worthless," because being T3 is only a minor strike against Vanguard/Rangers (and both of those are pretty good units.) The problem is that most of their defenses (FNP, W2, sometimes armor as well) are negated by very common weapons in the game, so you're effectively paying 35pts for a one-wound guy with a 4+ save. I'm not saying that they haven't worked out well for you, but I am saying that for someone going to tournaments, they're going to regularly run into weapons that will scythe through Infiltrators like they weren't even there. A minimum-sized unit of Eldar Jetbikes, for example (81pts) will kill most of the squad in a single volley of shooting from 36" away. Broadsides, Heldrakes, Fire Raptors, Knight Wardens, Thunderfire Cannons, Brainleech Devourers, Arc Rifles, and many, many other staples of the tournament scene will do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted June 21, 2015 Report Share Posted June 21, 2015 Don't forget Plasma Oblits. :) (Just so happened that this worked out for me against NV in our game.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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