Summer of Flyers

[AbusePuppy]

You don't need to have a flyer wing to get/give the bonus; having ANY flyer in reserve is sufficient to quantify, it seems.

 

Bombers just seem like total garbage. They have no advantages at all compared to the other flyer types and several disadvantages and none of the bombers were actually very good to begin with.

 

 

I think it may be very useful for Eldar - this detachment is a better deal than the crimson hunter formation - and that's 75% of most tournament opponents right there!

 

I actually think the Crimson Death is better than the new formation; if the new one were two Hemlocks and one Hunter I might be able to respect it as a ground-attack formation with some token anti-air, but the Hunters are actually really survivable and can cut down most things pretty easily. Well, they could prior to these changes, we'll see how this stuff works out.

 

I think most tournaments will lean away from using these rules because they just add a layer of complexity to the game that no one really wants or needs; it's extra work for no reason.

[Xavier319]

I think most tournaments will lean away from using these rules because they just add a layer of complexity to the game that no one really wants or needs; it's extra work for no reason.

 

I agree with AP here. We tried out the new flier rules in our games this weekend, and it added a significant amount of time to the game turns, and a layer and level of complexity that no one really wanted. In a tourny environment, in which you are already under a lot of pressure to roll, deploy, and play a game in a very limited amount of time, being forced to do what can be a VERY time consuming phase every game turn will make it nearly impossible to actually finish a game of 40k in which both opponents have fliers.

 

It's fun for pickup games and can make for some interesting campaign stuff, but I don't see this getting used in tournies much. I'm curious to see if ITC adopts these rules as part of their tournament format.

[Psilence]

Having browsed the book for a bit I came up with a few interesting items.

 

P. 58 flyers. Top paragraph -"this first section of burning skies rules present the expanded rules for flyers, which replace those from war hammer 40,000: The Rules."

 

Not sure how the community will handle this one. Looks like GW intends these rules to be used though.

 

P. 123. Blacksword missiles. Dogfight missile. "In a dogfight, this missile has unlimited range and the sky fire special rule (at any angle of attack)."

 

Didn't see this on any other weapon profiles. Just something special for the sons of the lion.

 

Attack patters are interesting. Basically players can purchase aircraft in 'wings' (2 or more planes), roll reserves to bring entire wings on at a time, and deploy said planes in certain patterns that then buff the aircraft dependent on how they are arranged on the board.

 

When the wing arrives it has to be in coherency, in later turns individual aircraft can operate independently.

 

The dogfight phase is a little cumbersome at first glance, but with time and experience it will get faster. It involves a roll off (with bonuses/negatives depending on each sides aircraft) to determine attacker/defender. Then 3 consecutive opposed dice comparisons (with corresponding charts) to see how the aircraft maneuver/attack each other. All of this happens off the main board, and allows for the destruction of aircraft that aren't on the main board.

 

Destroyed aircraft can crash n burn onto the main board, causing some havoc :)

 

Wing leaders/aces/racial formations allow buffs to players aircraft,ranging from better performance in dog fights, to gaining formation bonus's when not actually in formation.

 

It's a little heavy to process all at once, but I think it should be fun/interesting to use once we've had some time to digest it all.

[AbusePuppy]

Looks like GW intends for all players to have to purchase a supplement in order to be able to play the core game though.

 

Of course they do.

 

[Psilence]

An interesting quote AP.

 

A fair one though.

[AbusePuppy]

If quotehacking is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[spagunk]

I have a confession to make: Against all red flags and mental objections I actually bought the new SM flyer. Even though my army can't technically fly them without being "red marines" (Or allying red marines) I actually like the ugly thing.

[BrainFireBob]

I have a confession to make: Against all red flags and mental objections I actually bought the new SM flyer. Even though my army can't technically fly them without being "red marines" (Or allying red marines) I actually like the ugly thing.

This is a safe space.SAFE.SPACE

[WestRider]

You're not the only one, dude. I'm actually quite a fan of it as well. Got one on the way.

[Guest]

P. 123. Blacksword missiles. Dogfight missile. "In a dogfight, this missile has unlimited range and the sky fire special rule (at any angle of attack).".

Blacksword missiles are really weak options in terms of anti-flyer. And since the only other DA flyer only has hurricane bolters for AA, they do kinda need a buff if my DA flyers are expected to compete with "real" flyers. That is, without FW options.

 

Regarding extra layers of the game, you don't need to be active in every phase of the game. Look at TAU, no psychic phase, barely an assault phase, just moving and shooting. Does it make it a faster turn? ....sometimes!

 

Familiarity with the rules makes things faster. I'm curious how well the rules balance the game, or if they further disrupt attempts at balance.

[Xavier319]

Blacksword missiles are really weak options in terms of anti-flyer. And since the only other DA flyer only has hurricane bolters for AA, they do kinda need a buff if my DA flyers are expected to compete with "real" flyers. That is, without FW options.

 

Regarding extra layers of the game, you don't need to be active in every phase of the game. Look at TAU, no psychic phase, barely an assault phase, just moving and shooting. Does it make it a faster turn? ....sometimes!

 

Familiarity with the rules makes things faster. I'm curious how well the rules balance the game, or if they further disrupt attempts at balance.

tau have a significant and quite lengthy assault phase. all of their jet pack jumps take place in that phase.

 

I know what you're thinking pax, but i've seen it in action. Yes, it can go fast. but there is still a minimum amount of time to decide all those things, roll all those dice, look at all those charts. roll more dice, make some attack rolls, roll save, roll damage, see where it explodes on the board, then move on to the next pair of fliers. two armies with just two fliers each could have 10-15 min dogfight phases every game turn that accomplish little to nothing. or it could go fast. i'd just rather play the actual game.

[Guest]

tau have a significant and quite lengthy assault phase. all of their jet pack jumps take place in that phase.

 

I know what you're thinking pax, but i've seen it in action. Yes, it can go fast. but there is still a minimum amount of time to decide all those things, roll all those dice, look at all those charts. roll more dice, make some attack rolls, roll save, roll damage, see where it explodes on the board, then move on to the next pair of fliers. two armies with just two fliers each could have 10-15 min dogfight phases every game turn that accomplish little to nothing. or it could go fast. i'd just rather play the actual game.

Lol, yes, forgot the jet pack moves. Still, pretty quick compared to actually resolving combats....

 

Regarding the second point, Have they updated the FW flyers to have functional stats for Death from the Skies? Not using these rules until GW gets their act together and applies the rules to ALL the flyers seems like a pretty reasonable approach.

 

I don't really mind if the game takes a bit longer when both players choose to bring flyers (assuming you can ignore the phase if just one players decides against flyers). If the speed of the game is a major hindrance, maybe we'll see less flyers in 40k.

[Psilence]

Now everybody just needs to have epic scale flyers to represent their 40k ones. Scale everything down so the 'side board' for the dog fight doesn't take up a bunch of room.

 

And then scale up the airborne forces and have an all flyer apoc game >:)

[WestRider]

tau have a significant and quite lengthy assault phase. all of their jet pack jumps take place in that phase.

 

I know what you're thinking pax, but i've seen it in action. Yes, it can go fast. but there is still a minimum amount of time to decide all those things, roll all those dice, look at all those charts. roll more dice, make some attack rolls, roll save, roll damage, see where it explodes on the board, then move on to the next pair of fliers. two armies with just two fliers each could have 10-15 min dogfight phases every game turn that accomplish little to nothing. or it could go fast. i'd just rather play the actual game.

You only do one Dogfight per Phase, regardless of how many fliers you each have in Reserves. There's no "rinse and repeat" instruction.

[WestRider]

Stormhawk Pilot: Hey bro. Your Assault Cannon are looking kinda droopy there. Little bit of, uh, "elevational" dysfunction, eh?

Stormtalon Pilot: IT'S CALLED STRAFING RUN!

[Doug_L]

I picked up the Stormhawk today and it actually is a pretty adorable model in person. I think I'll get the second so I can make the detachment. The volume of special rules they get is impressive. For just under 500 pts I get a good crack at air superiority (vital for not just your reserve bonuses, but penalties to your opponent plus blocking potential penalties back at you!) and an absolute hammer of a squadron that comes in with significant firepower and bonuses (at least until one is shot down) like tank hunter, ignores cover (!!!), two squadron leader bonuses and +1BS/jink for a third flyer in the squadron. That gives me good odds are wrecking two skimmers/flyers plus whatever the stormtalons shoot at. Ignores cover is huge.

[Guest]

Now everybody just needs to have epic scale flyers to represent their 40k ones. Scale everything down so the 'side board' for the dog fight doesn't take up a bunch of room.

 

And then scale up the airborne forces and have an all flyer apoc game >:)

I knew a guy that brought a battlefeet gothic ship to represent his Orbital Strike. Both because it looked cool and because he'd forget about the orbital strike in most games. Pretty sure that was a WOW....

 

But, yeah, I do kinda like the idea of  a smaller scale flyer battle.