intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 unless you used testers...then it's a total bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Super clean works well too. You could come over and bum some from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Any limits on slings? #ScarySkavenMemories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I think 5 or 6 is fine. Not terribly overwhelming. Once it got to like 15 dudes with slings then that's when it was crazy. So Skaven players and I suppose range heavy groups in general, just try to not get too spammy with your guns. Hard to come up with a cap on ranged weapons so it's mostly gotta be a gentleman's agreement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Some games have a % of models. Lotr did 33% of your models could have ranged weapons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyote Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Ii recommend imposing a -1 to hit penalty when slings are fired twice and increasing the cost of a sling to 5 gcs. Slings are much better than short bows yet they are 3 gcs cheaper. I understand the logic. Bows and arrows are are much more difficult to make. Nevertheless, striking game balance isn't always well served by injecting too much realism into the game. If you are looking for a reason for the cost, say that lead sling bullets are in short supply or that the additional cost represents time spent by the slinger practicing and not doing chores around the camp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'm out, enjoy your league fellas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I'm out, enjoy your league fellas No!!!! Not your list I'm talking about. It's just I've been in leagues with 15+ slings and it kills the game. Please come back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Ii recommend imposing a -1 to hit penalty when slings are fired twice and increasing the cost of a sling to 5 gcs. Slings are much better than short bows yet they are 3 gcs cheaper. I understand the logic. Bows and arrows are are much more difficult to make. Nevertheless, striking game balance isn't always well served by injecting too much realism into the game. If you are looking for a reason for the cost, say that lead sling bullets are in short supply or that the additional cost represents time spent by the slinger practicing and not doing chores around the camp. this but with a sliding scale first couple slings regular price middling amount of slings higher price abusive amount of sling abusing pricing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyote Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Intrizic, I hope you don't feel like we were grouping up on you. We were simply discussing people's concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I do :) I'm not wasting anymore time on it though, no hard feelings at all. I wasn't that into the league anyway and I'm a bit, understatement, of a flake with Tuesday night attendance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I do :) I'm not wasting anymore time on it though, no hard feelings at all. I wasn't that into the league anyway and I'm a bit, understatement, of a flake with Tuesday night attendance as well. I'd be up for a one-off game sometime if you'd be down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 thanks bud, that means a lot Kacey... sigh, are you guys sure 6 slings is ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 slings is okay by me. This is meant to be a fun campaign, not a hyper-competitive one so I don't think we really need to take too many comp-steps to limit peoples' builds. Let's just let people take what they want to take and have a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyote Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Personally, I'd like to see a few minor tweaks to the sling rules (SEE above) to bring them in line with other ranged weapons, but other than that, I believe that playing with the proper amount, type, and density of terrain goes a long way towards balancing shooty Warbands. As such, I don't care how many slings or bows a Warband has, so long as we use the proper terrain.Also, since most missile weapons are S3, making armor more attractive may also help balance things out.A liberal use of the Hidden rule also helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I didn't know that slings didn't have a multi shot penalty. Sure we can add that in. Hope you don't dip out Loren. 6 isn't bad at all. We're talking when a whole warband has them. Too many shots to deal with. When every model in a Skaven band has a sling it is a little like venom spam. I think the rules change makes sense. Any multi shot weapon should bear a to hit penalty. But the amount you bring is up to your best judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 by way of explaination: I have never played Mordheim or Warhammer before I took my list building ques from the original warband that Koyote posted, which has 5 ranged weapons Then because skaven are generally considered a weaker race and I suck at Mordheim I added one more I never intended to have more than 6 slings When slings were talked about I was the only guy taking slings, so it seemed like everyone was talking about me Skaven don't have access to bows of any flavor or I would have taken those to avoid the drama warning wall of text incoming... Until Gareth came along I was the main guy doing any competitive war gaming and I came from a store with a dirty dirty meta, so some of this is a bed of my own making. I feel that I have made good strides in putting that behind me, but I also feel that I have been labeled into a WAAC gamer. There is a pervasive Warhamster Meta, which I don't prescribe too. It's not the way I game, I find the median you guys find very difficult. I am either super themed and just lose my ass or too competitive and it's 'oh Loren again'. I do things in games where I have taken too much power to bring things back into equilibrium and then I totally get punished for it. Warhamsters say that they don't bring power lists, but I disagree. Warhamsters just do it differently than I do. I don't feel like the warhamsters have room for my style of gaming, which is fine, but damn it's hard to be part of the group at times. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koyote Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiccus Posted November 7, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 I was wondering if that's where this was coming from. I'm sorry you feel that way bud. Mordheim is a very casual and theme heavy game. It's half just about the narrative. Some of us have played the game for years and in that time we've realized that the game is very imbalanced. Skaven aren't super scary when they are melee oriented but are a terror when they are fully kitted for range. For what it's worth I kind of agree with you. We do bring power lists a lot of the time it's just that we dilute them a bit here and there with flavor units thus making them appear less strong. But I would love to put any fears you have rest next time I see you. I don't think anyone sees you as a WAAC player anymore. I certainly don't. You're one of us bud. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashthedean Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 But I would love to put any fears you have rest next time I see you. I don't think anyone sees you as a WAAC player anymore. I certainly don't. You're one of us bud. Seconded. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gailbraithe Posted November 7, 2016 Report Share Posted November 7, 2016 Hey Loren, I only really know you from the RPG campaign, but I definitely don't think of you as a WAAC gamer. I know a munchkin when I see one, and I've never got any sense of that from you. I'd hate to see you drop out just because some people were complaining about slings. Also, I haven't played Mordheim in 20 years (seriously, my last game was back in high school, around '93-'94) and barely remember how to play, but one thing I do remember -- to back up Koyote's point -- is that terrain makes a HUGE difference, Mordheim is designed for extremely dense terrain with lots of LOS blocking stuff everywhere, and if you set up a very open board with minimal terrain the game doesn't work nearly as well. It's a lot like Infinity in that sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 big hugs all around, thank you all for the amazing support and thank you for sharing the concerns sorry for the drama I'm in 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yea! Tried to find a Gooble Gobble One of Us gif, but it's hard on an iPad. Pretend I posted one, and that it was apropos. Loren, you are one of the kindest, warmest people I know, and I've never had a bad game against you. The fact that you unfailingly go out of your way to make sure others are not offended makes me feel like a complete ass for having contributed in any way to you feeling unwanted or unappreciated. You are amazing, and I will tell you so as I fill your mutant rat-scum full of lead and Sigmar's glory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 You guys make it very easy to be kind :) I haven't felt this level of comradery, even before the sling drama, since I was in the Marine Corps. By the way I love your Gooble Gobble One of Us gif, it's the best gif I've seen all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fix Posted November 8, 2016 Report Share Posted November 8, 2016 I painted two models! I haven't painted two models in a pretty long time. edit: oh god, wonky eyes! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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