MexicanNinja

I understand that he's not a new player. I also understand what you are saying about his list. However, he did ask about advice on his list to be able to deal with different threats. I do have experience playing both BG and CoK's. The problem with 14 is that they just wont get you the outcome you are trying to achieve and without the knights, he has no answer for units with good armour saves. 1+/2+/3+ armour save units are pretty common with a lot of lists. Not only that but the S4 halberds wont have a huge impact against T5/T6 monters, which again aren't uncommon any more with the current meta of 8th. All I was/am trying to do is give him some advice with an army which is mostly S3 with some options for S4 or higher units. Again, 14 BG at 2400 points isn't going to do much for his army. My suggestions were only trying to enhance his army to what his original post asked for. Even when I take a unit of 24 BG, I get into a lot of situations where I am slowly loosing the grind battle and my heavy hitters are tied up with other threats my opponent has. The dual Hydra I was suggesting isn't the same as before. They still do great things, but without the ward save your opponent has a higher chance of knocking it out early on. As for the other suggestions I made, it's more for survivability than anything else. They still have elf stat lines and take damage when engaged. Again, my suggestions were only meant to help enhance his army and the units he is currently fielding, they have nothing to do with "maximizing".

Here's how I feel about Black Guard and Cold One Knights: It's either one or the other. They are both expensive units and to get the most out of them in higher point games you need to maximize their efficeincy. 5 CoK's will most likely get shot off the table or shot down to a size that just doesn't concern your opponent. The same could be said about 14 BG. They still only rock a 5+ save and will most likely be the target of shooting or magic for a turn to bring them to a level your opponent doesn't care about. I love BG and have 24 of them painted up; however, they just don't provide what the CoK's do. You get 2+ saves, S6 on the charge, ASF and MP means you will hit and wound with nearly all of the attacks. If you dropped the BG (I know the dilema) you could get the 10 CoK's, possibly a chariot (CoC are extremely good) to support your knights on a charge, and get some extra points to keep your characters and maybe add 2 RBT's and bring that unit of Dark Riders to 10. Or, you could drop the knights, add a second hydra to support a block of 24 BG. The BG will need support during combat. They can stay in the grind with a re-rollable 10 Stubborn test but will need something to add extra combat damage.

I would stay away from Orcs and Goblins as a first army. The animosity could go horribly wrong during your first game and leave a bad taste in your mouth. Warriors of Chaos is an extremely low model count army and is able to punch a lot of things in the face.

I should be there by 6. I'm hoping to leave my office no later than 3:30.

I pretty much skipped all the above posts. However, here is what I can tell you, based around your original post: 1) Vampires are not that easy to learn. They may seem like they are at first, however, they can fail horribly if just thrown together in a list. As far as them being a low model count army. Yes, they can; however, the list I would propose to you wouldn't find you many games with most people on Ordo, so I'm not going to mention it here. 2) Current Dwarfs can be a low model count army. They are fairly simple to use: move a little, shoot a lot, shoot some more, shoot one more time, charge in with the troops. However, I would suggest waiting until the new book comes out before deciding on whether or not to go Dwarfs. I would suggest testing a few games out with some people to get the feel for the game. This is nothing like fantasy and the movement phase is not forgiving. By testing out the game you will learn the mechanics and you should be able to decide which elements you are attracted to: i.e, shooting, magic, movement, combat.

Here are my suggestions: 1) Dreadlord needs shield, sea dragon cloack, Ogre Blade and the Black Amulet- This gives you a 1+/4+. The amulet lets you cause free wounds in a challenge for every succesful ward save made which ignores armour). 2) Lore of Dark Magic for your Level 4- +5 to cast every spell is huge with the spells already having low casting vaules. If you need a tip on how to use her effectively check out my casting 101. Also, with her being in the unit of dark riders, you need to play them carefully. A failed LD test from 25% casaulties will make her useless. If you want the most from her while using the Cloak of Twilight, stick her on a Dark Pegasus. 3) BSB on foot needs heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, sword of might, enchanted shield, dawnstone- This gives your BSB a 1+ re-rollable armour save and a consistant S5 attack. 4) Master on Manticore needs some more survivability. Upgrading him with heavy armour, charmed shield, sea dragon cloak will give him a 1+ AS with a chance to ignore the first hit on a 2+. 5) Black Guard should have standard of discipline. This will make them Stubborn 10. 6) Your Dark Riders should have repeater xbows. I see this list struggling against armies with lots of 1+/2+ armour save units. If you could find some way to get a RBT or 2 in the list, that will serve you well. I'm not sure how or where to get the points to make the changes or if the changes even fit your play style, without looking at the book, but I suggest at least looking into a few of the above changes. If you have any questions related to Dark Elves let me know, I've been playing very effectively since the new book has come out.

@NtK, I probablly won't make it down on Sunday. I most likely won't even be done until around 5ish and then I have a ton of closing reports to work on. I should be there on the 16th though.

Yeah, ruger told me about how his steam tank killed itself. We play pretty regularly and that steam tank is the only model I don't have an answer for. As for gamenight, are you referring to Tuesday or Sunday? I am in the 40k campaign for Tuesdays and I don't know if I will get off work in time to make it to Sunday's game night.

I still have 35 cavalry models to paint!

I'm not sure when or if I will be able to make it tomorrow night. I have to deal with weapons transfers tomorrow at some point.

If they keep the dwarven handgun rule with +1 to hit Empire still shoots worse. This book is going to fail or suceed with how they do magic items. Do they now have access to magic items like everyone else? Do they still have runes? How is the rune selection. Other than the current build: anvil, 3+ warmachines, miners, and blocks of GW warriors. The runes are what set different armies apart. The standard "core" build for the army is pretty common; however, the runes selection is where you notice the differences in builds. I strongly believe runes are going to be the main impact with this book.

Again, I have to agree with zero. If you can get a cheap zombie unit for your caster you can stick it behind your line and keep the necro safe.

Do you know if the models are going to be worth it? Without seeing the rules, what choice they are, how many points per model/upgrades w/costs, I wouldn't order models before seeing the rules.

Not sure if I will be able to make it to Sunday game night. I have drill this weekend.

Raindog, I would suggest test playing brawl missions. Myself and ruger have played several of them and they change how the game is played.

We shall, soon I hope. I need to meet the team! I did here from ruger that you smacked his empire around. Don't let him beat the dark elves...EVER!

I have to agree with Hero, Witch Kings are some of the best heroes in the game. They come with killing blow, 3 wounds, high toughness. I would also consider trying to get master of the dead on your Necro. Dogs are meant to die, drop the upgrade for the extra attack.

That is very nice. My only suggestion to you would be to rank them up 10 wide to maximize the shooting.

I could see slayers somewhere along the lines of dark elf witches and orc savages.

Oh, then I'm pretty certain the game engine is going to be very similar to Space Marine.

Yeah, I understand what it is, but it doesn't look any different that Space Marine to me. Even some of the icons are very similar. Space Marine was a solo campaign with multiplayer options. You got to set up and unlock options for....tactical marines, devestators, and assaults marines. However, as this will most likely be a PC game only, I will not be purchasing it.

The maps were excellent. Devestators were able to set up, tac marines had to use cover while running up the middle/flanks/rear of the enemy, and assault marines did what they did best....take all the focus while closing in on the enemy.

The name is gonzoliny on League of Legends. I try to pump out a game a night.

The major eye-popping thing for me is that bad mama-jama painted on the shield. That scorpion is extremely nice.

I would prefer 4, as I could get more gaming done without having to rush through for time constraints that come with showing up at 6. I say this because the prep time for fantasy is longer than most games.