Chaos unit sizes and other stuff

[Brother Glacius]

What works in terms of unit size for chaos units?

CSM

Cultists

Raptors

Terminators

Possessed

Chosen

 

Also, currently I'm sitting on two fast unit slots, raptors and a hell drake. What is a good third fast choice? I have the feeling most are going to say a second hell drake. Not closed off to the idea though. I can't say I'm thrilled with the warp talon model, but it does have an appeal for my Crimson Slaughter force.

[BrainFireBob]

Termies: Termicide. 3 with heavy flamer, 2 combi-meltas, 1 chainfist.

 

I've also used plain termies with power axes or mauls with a single heavy flamer to great effect in a LR.

 

Chosen: I'm eyeing Draznicht with 4 plasma guns and 8 dudes, myself. Maybe manning an Aegis. Haven't firmly decided.

 

Second Heldrake is good. 6-7 Nurgle bikes with plasma or melta, also good.

[Brother Glacius]

I'm not taking marks in my army, in fact, the only chaos god specific unit are berserkers, and thats only because they fit with CS and they came in the box. :)

[scottshoemaker]

Bikers are cool.  Solid and tough, good johnny on the spotters, plus Chaos Marines in Leather jackets are cool...

[Guest]

Also, currently I'm sitting on two fast unit slots, raptors and a hell drake. What is a good third fast choice? I have the feeling most are going to say a second hell drake. Not closed off to the idea though. I can't say I'm thrilled with the warp talon model, but it does have an appeal for my Crimson Slaughter force.

Helldrakes are nice in pairs. I will note that if you already have lots of cover denial/ap 3 options in the list, the baleflamer becomes rapidly less impressive. That hades cannon is actually pretty awesome for CSM, as it presents an S8 skyfire option. Again, depends on the list. I took an army heavy in thousand sons and was greatly disappointed in the baleflamer, regretting it wasn't a hades all game.

 

The Warp talons are amazing against marines. Take the veterans upgrade and you've got re-rolls to hit, then re-rolls to wound with the shred from the LCs. For durability, take MoT as their daemon rule makes them have 4++ with MoT. In alternative, take MoS to swing before those marines. Overwatch and shooting attacks remain issues, so pick your battles. 5-man is pretty easy to hide out of TLOS with jump packs. Warp talons are extremely cheap for their weapon options, even if they remain quite expensive.

 

I will note that the blinding power is misleading and usually causes the unit to get killed. Suggest normal deployment (or infiltration with deception warlord trait), then jumping them to assault. The blind can be useful against IG or necrons, but is mostly lackluster and causes the expensive unit to risk a very dangerous deep strike location.

[WestRider]

If I use normal CSM, it's generally 10 in a Rhino with double Specials and a matching Combi-Weapon on the Champ.

 

Culties can be used at pretty much any size. Little dinky min-size Units to Reserve and walk on to camp Backfield Objectives up through however big you can afford as a screen/tarpit (only a good Tarpit if you can spare a Fearless character to babysit them or they're Zombies tho). Culties get way better with the Helbrute Dataslate, gaining Fearless when they're taken as part of the Helcult Formation.

 

Raptors, I've only used at minimum size to Deep Strike Special Weapons. I've just gotten some more tho, and I'm thinking if I go past that, it's going to be a case of go big or go home.

 

I'm not entirely certain there is a good size to run Possessed at. They're going to need plenty of bodies to make it across the field, but they get hideously expensive at that point.

 

Chosen and Termies, I'm largely with BrainFireBob on. Other than Draznicht or as Troops, I'm not really a fan, but as Troops, it seems like one or two minimal Squads with something like an Autocannon and a Plasmagun could be useful in the backfield. Unfortunately, kitting them out for Assault like the DV ones are is pretty much just a waste. They're way too expensive, and you have to buy them a Land Raider to make it across the field into a Charge. Use those ones as Champions or trim off the power bits so they're just a regular Axe and Mace or something.

 

My recommendation for your last FA slot is Spawn. They die almost every game, but I always have a whole lot of fun with them before they drop.

[AscentStudios]

Unfortunately, kitting them out for Assault like the DV ones are is pretty much just a waste. They're way too expensive, and you have to buy them a Land Raider to make it across the field into a Charge. Use those ones as Champions or trim off the power bits so they're just a regular Axe and Mace or something.

I dunno I agree about assault Chosen (though I do agree they are too spendy kitted out in the way the DV characters are). I for one like Khornate Chosen - base 2 attacks with a CCW/pistol/bolter, +1 Ld, Counter-Attack and Rage makes for one damn fine assault unit. They're only a hair more expensive than Khornate CSM with extra CCW and MoK, and have a lot more flexibility, so you can toss in 1-2 power weapons or flamers if you're so inclined. But then, I'm a fan of Kharn the Betrayer so I may be biased.

[WestRider]

I can see using them as a generalist Unit that's capable in Assault, by tossing in 1-2 Power Weapons/Fists/whatever along with some specials. Especially for the option to get a Fist that can't be Challenged out. But blowing all their upgrade slots on Assault Upgrades, trying to turn them into a pure Assault Unit, that's what gets too expensive for too little return.

 

In less serious games, I've played around with a big Unit with 3 Meltas, a PowerFist, and Lightning Claws on the Champ. Hideously expensive, but they can be pretty fun.

[Guest]

Remember that many of the CSM units can take really big squads. Those big blobs of PA models can be pretty impressive at just weathering the enemy.
Also, if taking a building, you can fit a full 20-man unit inside a medium building, which can really add to your tactical options - the big blob doesn't need sit outside all game.

[MauzDeadalive]

I feel numbers depend on intended function. 5 CSM tend to cause some trouble but ultimately anger my opponent enough they die ( I also tend to be aggresive and only take the basics)...10 can weather out a game for me and gives me 2 special weapons...add a Rhino for extra fun but expect the Rhino to not survive long.

I like the idea of 30 Cultists...but I don't expect them to really survive...just help me control board space and tie up stuff.

Raptors I tend to go with 5 and deep strike suicide them...2 meltas and a combi-melta on my champ and hope for a good deep strike.

Terms *shrugs* depends on the role I want them to fill...if they are on honor guard duty then I take more...if I want to run distraction then just 3....if I want to play with a Land Raider I go with 5.

I have not really used the other units myself but again my main advice is think of the roles you want them to fulfill...and sometimes nothing succeeds like excess but check the math as I have found sometimes 2 squads of 5 gets me the same fire power cheaper than a squad of 10 or whatever the particle numbers are for that unit.

 

I would also second the bikes for your 3rd fast slot choice...or double up on your Raptors or Heldrake whichever winds up being your favorite.

[Lord Hanaur]

What works in terms of unit size for chaos units?

CSM

Cultists

Raptors

Terminators

Possessed

Chosen

 

Also, currently I'm sitting on two fast unit slots, raptors and a hell drake. What is a good third fast choice? I have the feeling most are going to say a second hell drake. Not closed off to the idea though. I can't say I'm thrilled with the warp talon model, but it does have an appeal for my Crimson Slaughter force.

Chaos Space marines are Black or white.  You either load them up to 20 or you roll with 5.  Nothing inbetween makes any sense.

Cuiltists at 10 are good for reserving to take objectives or control guns.  Count on them for nothing. 

Raptors need to be in biog squads.  I use 14 in mine and they are all Nurgle.

Terminators is a highly debated issue but I say 10.  Unit of 10 makes them adaptable to any sized task.

Possessed aren't a unit I recommend.  But you can really only AFFORD them in smaller units.

Chosen because they are special weapons and basically sternguard in a way, I like haveing a full unit but cost makes me say 5-6

[galahad911]

Chaos Space marines are Black or white.  You either load them up to 20 or you roll with 5.  Nothing inbetween makes any sense.

Cuiltists at 10 are good for reserving to take objectives or control guns.  Count on them for nothing. 

Raptors need to be in biog squads.  I use 14 in mine and they are all Nurgle.

Terminators is a highly debated issue but I say 10.  You can always combat squad them and they take only 1 force org.  Unit of 10 makes them adaptable to any sized task.

Possessed aren't a unit I recommend.  But you can really only AFFORD them in smaller units.

Chosen because they are special weapons and basically sternguard in a way, I like haveing a full unit but cost makes me say 5-6

 

Chaos Terminators? Combat Squad? Wha?

[Lord Hanaur]

lol.  my sleep meds got aholda me or something.  take them in 10 still.  i like that squad a lot.

[CaptainA]

Spawn are another great fast attack choice in CSM. They do do best with the mark of Nurgle though.

[Lord Hanaur]

Agreed

[Guest]

Spawn are another great fast attack choice in CSM. They do do best with the mark of Nurgle though.

Only exception is if you plan to field a mounted slaanesh lord, as he can join them with matched speed. In such a case, you can't mark them with anything other than MoS (though you don't have to mark them at all).

[Lord Hanaur]

Thats okay though. Slaanesh lord can still really help.