The future of non-primaris SM?

[Guest]

GW doesn't seem to be releasing any new SM kits that aren't primaris marines. Maybe a few characters. And if 2nd ed of AoS is any indication, does seem like they phasing out rule support for their dated models.

Should I be selling my non-primaris marines now? Given that models usually decrease in value when GW stops supporting their rules...

[Sgt. Rock]

I've been seeing a lot about this. I'm not a huge fan of the Primaris marines, to be honest, and every time I see someone say something like this, it makes me feel like I made a mistake buying these Marine models to play Black Templars (as well as possibly getting back into 40k in the first place, if they're going to pull [big bad swear word] like this). Maybe I should have just gone back to orks...

[Dusldorf]

Where do you see evidence of them phasing out the old marine models?

[InfestedKerrigan]

It's anecdotal evidence based off AoS phasing out Legacy Armies from WFB, as he said in his post.

[Sgt. Rock]

Anecdotal, yes, but the dominance of the Primaris stuff in any of the publications and imagery, and GW's careful efforts to not put Primaris marines next to normal marines in any sort of official image, all kinds of adds up to that end. Kind of irritating, to be honest; if they do go this route, there are going to be a lot of very upset marine players out there. This would be a huge blunder on their part if they actually do this.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I've said in the past I believe GW is going to do this. Pretty sure I've started a thread about it, too. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Rock said:

I've been seeing a lot about this. I'm not a huge fan of the Primaris marines, to be honest, and every time I see someone say something like this, it makes me feel like I made a mistake buying these Marine models to play Black Templars (as well as possibly getting back into 40k in the first place, if they're going to pull [big bad swear word] like this). Maybe I should have just gone back to orks...

Sorry about that. I know, I'm being pessimistic.

AoS and 40k are different games, with different markets, so it might not be fair to compare the two as I am.

And it is certainly anecdotal.

Honestly, I had hoped that the AoS players would put more pressure on GW to support their old model lines. This has not been the case, in my opinion. Most of the AoS players I encounter were never WHFB players. And they don't really appreciate the value of old models being supported, because in their view, AoS is a new game and isn't related to WHFB. I commonly hear (from AoS players) that GW ditching the legacy armies is reasonable and GW was more than generous to support them for as long as they did.

And even if they ditch non-primaris marines, I doubt I'd stop playing 40k. I would, however, reconsider playing GW's 40k. Might work out my own ruleset.

On the other hand, if they ditch non-primaris marines, I don't really see the problem running a tactical marine with a bolter as an intercessor. The only real reason that's a problem now is because both have rules in the game. So, in many respects, if GW ditches non-primaris marines, it might actually work out very well for me.

[WestRider]

In the fluff, there have actually been bits with non-Primaris Marines saying that they know their days are numbered, and the future of the Space Marines will be entirely Primaris. The novel Dark Imperium is the example that comes to mind, but I think I've seen others.

[Sgt. Rock]

Just now, WestRider said:

In the fluff, there have actually been bits with non-Primaris Marines saying that they know their days are numbered, and the future of the Space Marines will be entirely Primaris. The novel Dark Imperium is the example that comes to mind, but I think I've seen others.

That's really interesting. If that's the case, I could see massive defections of old-school marines to chaos, what with the feelings of bitterness and betrayal that would come with being kicked to the curb like that. But GW's fluff has never made sense, so it probably won't happen. Still, might make for some interesting conversions.

[WestRider]

That maybe came out sounding harsher than I intended. There was no talk of doing anything to the "classic" Marines, just that when they eventually fell in battle, their replacements would be Primaris. Given that the Space Marines are one of the few parts of the Imperium that is (at least occasionally) OK with invention and technological progress, I would expect them to be more accepting of this than other groups might be.

The real kicker for Chaos here, I think, is going to be when Fabius Bile gets his hands on a good supply of Primaris Geneseed.

[andy]

I've always assumed that Primaris are the only marines we'll see from here on out -- just from a business point of view... but you know what they say about assuming.

[Psilence]

Most likely they are phasing out the old molds, which could last another 10 years.

Staying positive, as ordo usually is, I think it’s a bit premature to see the end of ‘normal’ astarte any time in the near future.

Will they eventually stop supplying the older kits?  Likely.  Will they continue to generate rules for the older kits so folks can still use their old toys?  Equally likely (in my book).  

Besides, for marines, “Only in death does duty end”.

Also watch out...   The Space Wolves are coming.   >:)

[InfestedKerrigan]

Watch these batches of books be the last of rules for old marines. Does the Deathwatch Codex have any marine infantry that are not represented in the new scale? Expect that of all future releases. 

Same with new Primaris Chapters as they show up with the new gear. 

[Guest]

Though it could be the other way around too, where this edition primaris marines are awesome, and next edition, go back to the regular marines being awesome.

I wouldn't put past GW to screw over players in this way, instead of screwing them over by ditching the old models.

[andy]

Oh, I think we'll continue to see rules for the old models just no new Space Marines that aren't Primaris.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, andy said:

Oh, I think we'll continue to see rules for the old models just no new Space Marines that aren't Primaris.

I thought they were going to do this for AoS, but apparently this time around, they are keeping up the rules, they just aren't printing any points (or otherwise balancing them in the game). Seems like splitting hairs to me, but it lets them claim to continue support without actually doing so.

[dalmer]

"You’ll get what you deserve soon enough, We Primaris Marines are the future, and we will be the death of you"

With statements like that, Guilliman's spies aren't being warmly welcomed in the First Legion.

 

I think that GW will continue rule sets for both models but I can totally see only Primaris models being released.  There is enough of the older range of models, why not go with the new stuff and explore/expand from there? 

[happycamper]

Well I mean technically they haven’t released any new primaris either outside of flavor kits (like now it’s SW, just a character and some shoulder pads)

in the end I think the primaris are great, they look ten times better being the right size.  Eventually they will probably take over but it will be awhile.  

Besides, Space Marines have plenty of options as it is.  What more do they actually need where it doesn’t start to bloat the army?  I don’t get the whole “GW screwing us over” View.  Like how? 

 

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, happycamper said:

Besides, Space Marines have plenty of options as it is.  What more do they actually need where it doesn’t start to bloat the army?  I don’t get the whole “GW screwing us over” View.  Like how?

I spend "x" dollars per year on my 40k armies. For the last 20+ years, maybe some units/builds collect dust, but they can all be fielded if I really wanted to. There's a few exceptions, but mostly I can field everything. It's a good part of how I justify continuing to purchase models and continuing to play the game.

Now if GW decides that they are going to stop supporting a good chunk of my models, that changes things. I have enough models, so it's not going to prevent from playing, but game changer is that I can no longer justify collecting on the basis that my collection can be used. Furthermore, it creates a bad precedent because it means that none of my GW purchases are guaranteed to be supported in the future.

So now when I buy models from GW, I have to weigh that GW may just ditch support for these models, at a moment's notice. And it's not a moment's notice in traditional time, but how many of us have bought a kit on the basis that you will "eventually" put it together and use it in your army? I know I have. And it takes a while to paint and assemble these. Might take a good two years for some of us really get an army we are proud of.

You are a guard player. The equal is if GW decided that infantry didn't belong in the astra millitarum codex. They'd keep the tanks, but no more infantry. All the infantry you have are now just extra plastic army men you can't use in 40k. It wouldn't prevent you from playing because you have enough other guard, but that's a lot of models you've taken the time to paint and assemble, which you can't use anymore. Maybe "screwed over" is extreme, but it would be a substantial setback.

 

[Munkie]

7 hours ago, paxmiles said:

You are a guard player. The equal is if GW decided that infantry didn't belong in the astra millitarum codex. They'd keep the tanks, but no more infantry. All the infantry you have are now just extra plastic army men you can't use in 40k. 

It's not really like that though. It would be a lot closer if they decided that IG would only have storm troopers as infantry. 

Let's keep in mind what Primaris Marines are in the first place: a fluff justified reason to release true scale marines. Given that, why would they want true scale AND non-true scale lines in the long run? I always assumed replacing the SM line was the end goal. 

But here's the thing, you don't have to buy the new range. If there are no such things as tactical marines anymore, then you've got piles and piles of intercessors (or whatever they're called).

When they redid the entire Dark Eldar line in 5th, nobody was required to get rid if their 3rd ed stuff. In fact, I just painted another 3rd ed converted raider for my Haemonculus detachment this week.

Simply put, a new model range does NOT imply that your current collection is useless. It's an opportunity to find creative and financially feasible solutions.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Munkie said:

But here's the thing, you don't have to buy the new range. If there are no such things as tactical marines anymore, then you've got piles and piles of intercessors (or whatever they're called).

If they are replacing one line with another, then I really have no issue.

[happycamper]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

If they are replacing one line with another, then I really have no issue.

I’m a guard player and a SM player too, though admittedly all of it is Primaris 😂

I just can’t see them not have rules ever, they know that probably 50% of players own SM armies.  If they gave up support they would have extreme backlash

[InfestedKerrigan]

4 hours ago, happycamper said:

 If they gave up support they would have extreme backlash

- Every WHFB player, probably 

[pretre]

Nevermind.