Common Mistakes

[pretre]

I enjoyed this article on 3++ by our own AbusePuppy.

 

http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/08/mistake-mondays-7th-seal-edition/

 

1. Models can only fire one weapon as part of Overwatch, Interceptor, or other special shooting attacks.

2. Deep Striking vehicles count as moving at Combat Speed, meaning they can fire one weapon (or all weapons if Fast) and passengers can disembark or fire weapons as if moving.

3. When assaulting, all models in the unit must move in a straight line towards the enemy; you can't “detour” to avoid difficult or dangerous terrain, although you may do so for impassible terrain or intervening models.

4. Units with the And They Shall Know No Fear special rule that are falling back regroup automatically and ignore the penalties for doing so, but no longer receive the “free” additional 3″ movement.

5. Most artillery models can move normally, including making fallback moves, though they treat difficult terrain as dangerous. However, if an artillery unit falls back from close combat, they will be caught in any Sweeping Advances automatically.

6. Only infantry models can embark on transports, and only infantry, jump infantry, and jet pack infantry can embark into buildings. Sorry, no Thunderwolves in Drop Pods.

7. Tests for Hit and Run are made at the end of the Assault phase, once all combats have been resolved. You must specify the direction you are attempting to go before rolling the 3d6 to determine distance. If the enemy escapes using Hit and Run, any enemies no longer in combat may make consolidation moves.

8. Barrage weapons cannot fire at a target that is both out of Line of Sight and inside their minimum range. (Barrage weapons that only fire indirectly, like the Manticore, cannot fire at targets inside their minimum range at all and never subtract their BS from the scatter.)

9. If a model has more than one modifier to its characteristics, apply any doublings/halvings before adding or subtracting any values. So, for example, a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with a Power Fist would be Strength 9 (4 x 2 = 8, 8 + 1 = 9), not Strength 10.

10. Blast and template weapons that hit a Chariot are always resolved against the vehicle itself, never the rider.

 

 

[fluger]

1. Models can only fire one weapon as part of Overwatch, Interceptor, or other special shooting attacks.

 

While I agree that that is RAW, I'm not sure that that is RAI.  I usually house rule it that MCs can overwatch with two weapons.  

[AbusePuppy]

While I agree that that is RAW, I'm not sure that that is RAI.  I usually house rule it that MCs can overwatch with two weapons.  

 

Well, you can houserule literally anything you want, but the rules themselves are fairly clear. Personally, I don't think that assaults need to be penalized any more than they already are.

[fluger]

Fair enough.  I don't disagree with the RAW, I just think that the rule for MCs firing two weapons was intended to carry over to the other phases.  GW is known for shoddy rules-writing and I'm sure they INTENDED it that way.  

 

::shrug::

 

I'll be more than happy to have my opponents NOT fire two weapons on overwatch with their MCs.  

[PourSpelur]

The one I kept getting wrong:

Fast only applied to the vehicle, NOT infantry firing from an open topped Trukk;(

[Burk]

what about vehicles with overwatch?  How many can they fire?

[VonVilkee]

what about vehicles with overwatch?  How many can they fire?

One as it says models that overwatch. And only walkers can actually overwatch.

[Lord Hanaur]

Also two more that you missed:

 

1. never to get involved in a land war in Asia.
2. Never go in against a Sicilian when Death is on the line.

[pretre]

 

Also two more that you missed:

 

• never to get involved in a land war in Asia.

• Never go in against a Sicilian when Death is on the line.

those are classic blunders not common mistakes. :)

[Steel Angel]

Models can only fire one weapon as part of Overwatch, Interceptor, or other special shooting attacks.

 

 

 

When it comes to interceptor I need more proof. All the rule saids for interceptor is.

 

"a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from Reserve within its range and line of sight."

 

It does not say a unit with interceptor may fire A weapon or even a model may fire a weapon. It just saids if a weapon has the rule it can fire.

 

Now  I could be wrong god knows wouldn't be first time so If someone can point to the rule that saids only one weapon can be fired using interceptor then I will be satisfied.

[DisruptiveConduct]

The last line of the interceptor rule explicitly references a model with two weapons.

[galahad911]

As far as multiple weapon overwatch goes...

 

An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on. Unlike a normal shooting attack, Overwatch cannot cause Morale checks or Pinning tests. Any shots fired as Overwatch can only be fired as Snap Shots.

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 6738-6741). 

So all the normal rules, then they list some of the rules, and then just to make it so very clear what they mean there's that "and so on" tagged on there. 



Monstrous Creatures can fire up to two of their weapons each Shooting phase – they must, of course, fire both at the same target. They may never Go to Ground, voluntarily or otherwise.

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 7466-7467). 

Yes, it does say shooting phase in there doesn't it? Hmm, but it also says it here...



Unless otherwise stated, if a model has more than one shooting weapon, he must choose which one to shoot – he cannot fire both in the same Shooting phase.

Games Workshop Ltd. Warhammer 40,000 (Kindle Locations 6556-6557). 

So,you either have to decide that using all the rules means you use all the rules, including the ones that call out the shooting phase, or everyone should be firing all their guns in overwatch since they don't have to choose which one to fire as it's not the shooting phase.

So you decide that the MC rule and multitrackers work in overwatch, or everyone should all be firing ALL their weapons in overwatch. There's no reason to choose which one to shoot as it's not the shooting phase. One of these 2 conclusions breaks the game far more than the other, but I don't see how you can say that things called out in the shooting phase only apply to that phase and not come to the conclusion that you can fire as many guns as you like in overwatch.

[Steel Angel]

you mean this.
 
"If this rule is used, the weapon cannot be fired in the next turn, but the firing model can shoot a different weapon if it has one."
 
all that saids is if you use a weapon with interceptor you can't use it in normal shooting phase next. again nothing about only firing one weapon.
 
Now for most things they can only shoot one weapon, but what say you grant a vech. not just a weapon interceptor. that would mean it's weapons don't have interceptor The Vech. does which the interceptor rule does not realy help with. IE Mortis dread, Firestorm thingy
 
 
See the problem is the rule only talks about weapons that has the rule not units or models.
 
 
If you still say one weapon then the same ruling would have to be for skyfire too. Which has the same wording in it.

"A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this special rule, fires using its normal Ballistic Skill when shooting"

[Guest]

For the record, the "firestorm thingy" has the skyfire+interceptor rule in the weapon profile.

[Steel Angel]

the firestorm redoubt has 2 weapons with skyfire+interceptor which it is allow to fire both.  So does it only get to fire one of them as interceptor being as it's one model?

 

 

 

By RAW I see nothing that saids that. (but can be wrong)

 

 

As RAI I think it can fire both.

[Justjokin]

I'm looking at you Tau Multitracker...

[Guest]

the firestorm redoubt has 2 weapons with skyfire+interceptor which it is allow to fire both.  So does it only get to fire one of them as interceptor being as it's one model?

 

 

 

By RAW I see nothing that saids that. (but can be wrong)

 

 

As RAI I think it can fire both.

Firestorm Redoubt has 2 emplaced weapons. Each emplaced weapon has two TL icarus lascannons. As I've always played it, yeah, it fires all four weapons interceptor style...

 

I'm pretty sure the interceptor weapon functions per weapon with interceptor, not per model.

 

I will also note that the FSR already took a pretty huge hit in viability due to skyfire+interceptor in 7th meaning it only hits non-skyfire targets on 6s... In addition to this, the FSR still has the fully automated rule, so it has to shoot at the nearest target (there is a special rule to allow nearest skyfire target instead, but that's it).

 

So, example, Your pod lands and five guys get out. If you put the guys closer to the FSR than he pod, the FSR has to shoot the guys. In the case of interceptor, this rule isn't suspended due to being fully automated, it just defers to eligible targets. So it only shoots the closest unit that arrived from reserves this turn.

[Steel Angel]

I agree with all that.

 

Where the question is is how does interceptor work when it's the unit that has the  Interceptor rule and not the weapons.

 

For most they can only shoot one weapon per turn anyway, but for a few units they can shoot more then one weapon.

 

Some say as I agree with you can shoot as many weapons as you are allowed. Being as the model has the rule and is allowed to shoot more then one

 

But others say only one weapon. though I see nowhere it saids this.

[AbusePuppy]

One as it says models that overwatch. And only walkers can actually overwatch.

 

I didn't call out walkers specifically here, but they actually are able to fire more than one weapon on Overwatch, as they are specifically noted as using the plural there (and several other things.)

 

 

When it comes to interceptor I need more proof. All the rule saids for interceptor is.

 

"a weapon with the Interceptor special rule can be fired at any one unit that has arrived from Reserve within its range and line of sight."

 

It does not say a unit with interceptor may fire A weapon or even a model may fire a weapon. It just saids if a weapon has the rule it can fire.

 

You are correct here, except that the general rules limit a model to firing a single weapon in any phase unless otherwise specified. So Interceptor itself allows you to fire multiple weapons, but other factors can prevent you from doing so.

 

The Firestorm Redoubt and other vehicles with multiple Interceptor weapons can potentially use more than one, though, as noted in Walkers above.

 

 

So you decide that the MC rule and multitrackers work in overwatch, or everyone should all be firing ALL their weapons in overwatch. There's no reason to choose which one to shoot as it's not the shooting phase. One of these 2 conclusions breaks the game far more than the other, but I don't see how you can say that things called out in the shooting phase only apply to that phase and not come to the conclusion that you can fire as many guns as you like in overwatch.

 

Except that you're forgetting some of the rules- p.31, Which Models Can Fire- "Typically, a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase." Doesn't say shooting only, although it does note that "some models... can shoot two or more." In 6th Edition you were correct and, if you had been reading my posts, you'll note I previously agreed with your position- the restriction on firing two or more weapons only applied during the shooting phase, but that is worded differently in 7th.

[Guest]

Except that you're forgetting some of the rules- p.31, Which Models Can Fire- "Typically, a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase." Doesn't say shooting only, although it does note that "some models... can shoot two or more." In 6th Edition you were correct and, if you had been reading my posts, you'll note I previously agreed with your position- the restriction on firing two or more weapons only applied during the shooting phase, but that is worded differently in 7th.

Check page 112, in the little black box regarding automated weapon fire. It's specific that each weapon fires.

 

Granted this isn't referenced in regard to the interceptor rule...

[VonVilkee]

Interesting, missed the changes to over watch... Yay multiple weapons! Not like they will hit any thing tho...

[galahad911]

I didn't call out walkers specifically here, but they actually are able to fire more than one weapon on Overwatch, as they are specifically noted as using the plural there (and several other things.)

 

 

 

You are correct here, except that the general rules limit a model to firing a single weapon in any phase unless otherwise specified. So Interceptor itself allows you to fire multiple weapons, but other factors can prevent you from doing so.

 

The Firestorm Redoubt and other vehicles with multiple Interceptor weapons can potentially use more than one, though, as noted in Walkers above.

 

 

Except that you're forgetting some of the rules- p.31, Which Models Can Fire- "Typically, a model can only fire a single shooting weapon in the same phase." Doesn't say shooting only, although it does note that "some models... can shoot two or more." In 6th Edition you were correct and, if you had been reading my posts, you'll note I previously agreed with your position- the restriction on firing two or more weapons only applied during the shooting phase, but that is worded differently in 7th.

 

And the specific rules for having multiple weapons tells you how to use them. I quoted those rules in my last post. Typically does not equal always.

[AbusePuppy]

And the specific rules for having multiple weapons tells you how to use them. I quoted those rules in my last post. Typically does not equal always.

 

And the shooting phase is not the assault phase.

[galahad911]

Okay then, fire all your weapons in overwatch against AP, got it.

[Burk]

AP,  please quote where a VEHICLE cannot fire all weapons when intercepting?