fluger Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I'm honestly surprised they didn't give Raiders more love. They just still don't make any sense for their points. They needed SOMETHING to make them worth taking over the venoms. As it stands, the passengers are almost a tax for the vehicles as why would you want to move the models inside up close? The only possible contenders for this are Incubi, too bad they have low strength and no grenades and are 20 pts a pop!?!?!. Grotesques are AMAZING, but need a minder or are worthless. Trueborn are cute and all, but why put them in harms way (read: in a such a flimsy transport) when you can WWP them? Warriors? Why? Wyches? They just don't do enough damage to merit serious inclusion. The dex is flawed in a really miserable way, and I don't see a way around it. In the context of the dexes released with 7th in Mind (Nids, IG, Orks, Space Wolves, Grey Knights) they fit. If we look at Tau and Eldar? They just don't have a really good chance without going extreme in some manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I believe Tau and Eldar will be the last 'power dexes' we will see for some time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The Dark lances inside the jinking Raider with Night Shields forms a Ravager. More expensive but... 30 points may save you life as well. When you Jink, you still have two normally Firing Lances and ONE snap firing, plus the unit inside is still alive because of the 3+ saves until needed for objective shenanigans. Food or thought. One morsel of many i may yet have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Venoms are better than Raiders because of Splinter Racks, Shock Prows, and 3HP. I... don't really see those lists as very good- a Tau or Eldar list will kill every one of your transports on turn 1 relatively easily. Hell, a TFC can do a lot of damage to them. I believe Tau and Eldar will be the last 'power dexes' we will so for some time And Knights and Space Marines and Daemons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 The Dark lances inside the jinking Raider with Night Shields forms a Ravager. More expensive but... 30 points may save you life as well. When you Jink, you still have two normally Firing Lances and ONE snap firing, plus the unit inside is still alive because of the 3+ saves until needed for objective shenanigans. Food or thought. One morsel of many i may yet have... Unless I'm mis-reading the dex, but warriors only can have 1 lance for every 10 models and must have 10 models to get a lance, so that's a minimum of 100 pts spent there and then 55 for the raider and another 15 for the night shields and another 5 for the raider to get a dark lance itself. So, for 175 pts you get two dark lance shots and 3 AV10 open top hull points? Sorry, but that's a pretty poor investment in points IMO. Just put that 175 pts into context of other troop units in the game and it starts becoming apparent that it is a pretty poor investment on almost every front. Now, are you talking about a minimum sized Trueborn unit with 2 dark lances? That's 95 pts for the squad, so for 170 pts you get 3 dark lance shots in the elite slot. I mean...I guess? I'm not saying they are absolute garbage, I just think they needed some more love. Base raider should be about 40 pts IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't see Space Marines as a power dex, nor daemons nor Knights or at least not on par with Eldar or Tau. AP this is all opinion, and I respect yours, I won't argue this with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Knights, Daemons, and SM have all ranked just as highly at recent large events as Tau and Eldar have. SM had I believe three armies in the top ten of BAO and one was the winner of the tournament. If Tau are a power codex, SM are as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Space Marines are a cool strong codex. Space Marines dont have everyone's army rippling with changes to account for it. Chaos Flying Daemon Circus does and Wavespam does. That's about it. Can anyone really truly say that even Centurion Star is as points effective and scary? I dunno. Maybe? But those are the two builds...really the only two...I plan around and for. I don't fear that what I come up with will be too "specialized" if I do, because lets face it: if you cant beat those two, you're a donor. I have my first Dark Eldar list kinda formed up. Slight variation on an old theme. I think it'll do well. Still poor anti air and still susceptible to Psykers. Until the Crucible gets fixed... It's going to be a rough ride, so strap in. Armies without Psyker defense have a significant disability when it comes to tournaments because in 3-6 games, you're GOING to face Psykers. Probably several. I don't think I have to explain the importance of Anti-air. Two things we are ill equipped for. Let us hope we are good at getting into melee on our turns and that mysterious objectives are kind to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Armies without Psyker defense have a significant disability when it comes to tournaments because in 3-6 games, you're GOING to face Psykers. Probably several. I can't think of any Armies that have real Psychic defense any more. That matters, I mean. The Psychic Powers I see making a difference all the time are Blessings and Conjurations, which no one can get any kind of boost against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 well hoods, Relic Plating, Grey Knight...well... Just Grey Knights in general. Then you have the Eldar and their number of dice and Daemons and their number. Pretty good defense. Inquisition and by extension, everyone in the imperium can do the Culexus thing. Chaos Sapce Marines can bring the defense if they are feeling it, though there's only a couple good ways to do it. Heck even IG can get themselves to 11 dice in an army from the codex itself with no help. That's enough to stop one and maaaaaaaybe two powers if you're rollin hot. But a few codex's got very little and Dark Eldar for fluff reasons of course, are one of them. Helm of Spite is good if its close to the target. I do like that item and i DO think its goingtoi make a difference. Game play will tell me more. Right now all I can do is imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Hoods, Relic Plating, and GK stuff still only work on Maledictions and Witchfires. And there are some admittedly nasty examples in those categories, but there's nothing in the Game other than packing in your own pile of dice or a Culexus* that can stop the buffs that run a CentStar, Seer Council, or ScreamerStar, or make Daemon Princes truly problematic. *And the Culexus has his own issues. He's pretty easy for a lot of Armies to either kill quickly, or just move their Psykers away from. Of the Units I listed, only the CentStar really cares, because all the rest can go far enough in the Movement Phase to get away from him before their Psychic Phase comes around. He's annoying, but not really a shutdown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 he doesnt have to be a shut down. Just an equalizer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Haemonculus: 110 Webway Portal Haemonculus: 110 Webway Portal Haemonculus: 110 (second CAD) Webway Portal 10 Wyches: 130 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 10 Wyches: 130 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 10 Wyches: 130 (second CAD) 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 10 Wyches: 130 (second CAD) 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 4 Grotesques: 185 Aberration: Scissorhands 4 Grotesques: 185 Aberration: Scissorhands 4 Grotesques: 185 Aberration: Scissorhands Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Talos: 130 (second CAD) TL Haywire Blaster 1925 There are 75 more points to play with. I could do a few changes, obviously, but I like the feel of it as it stands. Another option would be to replace a few Talos with some Cronos with spirit probes to get the FNP up to 4+ and also help the wyches out. This seems about the only application for Wyches that I see having any particular value. Small enough to hide and protected by their big scary Talos bros. Anyway, the big thing is dropping a bunch of grotesques in one's opponent's backfield and running amok. That's sexy. The particulars might need to change, but it should present some interesting tactical choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 So I haven't seen the final codex in my hands, but I read a review on Bell of Lost Souls. Basically, there's a bunch of nerfs across the board, and a loss of real good items that help them compete. If my own review when I see it says basically the same thing, I'm pretty sure it's time to shelve the army outside of maybe an allied contingent. And return the unopened boxes for other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I don't know that I'd trust BOLS... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 This codex is so FAR from being "shelved" its not even funny. I am telling you, we have great material to work with here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Maybe this instead? Urien Rakarth: 140 Haemonculus: 110 Webway Portal Haemonculus: 110 (second CAD) Webway Portal 11 Wyches: 140 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 10 Wyches: 130 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 10 Wyches: 130 (second CAD) 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade 20 Warriors: 230 (second CAD) 2 Blasters, 2 Dark Lances 4 Grotesques: 185 Aberration: Scissorhands 4 Grotesques: 185 Aberration: Scissorhands Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Talos: 130 TL Haywire Blaster Cronos: 125 (second CAD) Spirit Probe Cronos: 125 (second CAD) Spirit Probe 2000 A bit more aggressive and in your face. Urien's special ability coupled with the Cronos mean that the wyches and big warrior unit should start with FnP 5+, which goes up to 4+ on turn 2. He's fairly safe inside that big unit of guys. 5 t7 MCs with 3+ saves and 4+ FnP is pretty sexy too. Even things that negate their armor probably won't negate even basic cover so they should be shrugging off a lot of damage. I really like the look of this circus of pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I feel like my Talos will be shifting dust off their surfaces like that robot in Judge Dredd. bwa haahahahahahahahahahaha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 This codex is so FAR from being "shelved" its not even funny. I am telling you, we have great material to work with here. It is why I said "pending my own review" :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 I feel like my Talos will be shifting dust off their surfaces like that robot in Judge Dredd. bwa haahahahahahahahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Succubus: 130 Armour of Misery, Archite Glaive, Blast Pistol, Haywire Grenade, 4 Grotesques: 185 + 85 Aberration: Scissorhands Raider: Dark Lance, Night Shields, Grisly Trophies 10 Wyches: 130 + 60 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade Raider: Dark Lance 10 Wyches: 130 + 60 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade Raider: Dark Lance 10 Wyches: 130 + 60 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade Raider: Dark Lance 10 Wyches: 130 + 60 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade Raider: Dark Lance 10 Wyches: 130 + 60 3 Dual Hydra Gauntlets Hekatrix: Haywire Grenade Raider: Dark Lance 9 Reavers: 174 3 Blasters 9 Reavers: 174 3 Blasters 9 Reavers: 174 3 Blasters Ravager: 125 3 Dark Lances 1997 Far from perfect, but it is themed and actually is pretty scary. A full 2/3rds of the results on combat drugs help them. Going to Initiative 7 is virtually pointless and Ld 9 is cute, but...really? Being WS5, or S4, or T4, or even an extra attack really helps their killy and makes them capable of hitting above their weight. The reavers I actually like more and more, potentially even more than the scourges. I hadn't seen what bladevanes did (rending and S4 hammer of wrath hits!), and now I love them! The list still will have struggles against mechanized lists, but it has a lot of options for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted October 8, 2014 Report Share Posted October 8, 2014 Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.