fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 With double CAD, that's 4 units that can just show up. Perhaps more if they still have multiple Haemons per slot and if they can get access to the WWP. Still, 4 big units of warriors just popping up with no scatter is pretty sexy. Then again, it'd probably be better if they were wyches. Anyway, I'm going to reserve total judgement until I see the dex, but it seems in line with the books for 7th (Nids, Orks, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Dex is stores saturday? just trying to plan my weekend :D 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Also, I'm really glad to see you back on the 40k wagon, Torg. The hobby needs people like you with all your artistic skills and honest love for certain areas of fluff. We are all better off for you being involved. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well, it appears that AbusePuppy really likes the book. http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/10/salvaging-dark-eldar/ I think it's a bit early for quite that definitive an assessment, but I guess we'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think yes, too early to tell overall, but that's pretty dire reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well, it appears that AbusePuppy really likes the book. http://www.3plusplus.net/2014/10/salvaging-dark-eldar/ I think it's a bit early for quite that definitive an assessment, but I guess we'll see. there really needs to be a sarcasm font. From the rumors, i absolutely agree with AP, it is too early to tell, but... the term neutered comes to mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 there really needs to be a sarcasm font. From the rumors, i absolutely agree with AP, it is too early to tell, but... the term neutered comes to mind... I think, again from the rumors, that it is a shift. I think that Coven is the new thing and that it'll be pretty good but again, I'm going to withhold judgement for a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 there really needs to be a sarcasm font. From the rumors, i absolutely agree with AP, it is too early to tell, but... the term neutered comes to mind... In the case of DE, shouldn't it be chemical castration, rather than neutering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Raiders being used more as transports is a thing, because now with night shields giving stealth, that's a 3+ cover save. As fast as they are, that's a turn 2 assault threat. Now, the cynical way to look at this is that wave serpents are going to lol this off the table, but just remember that wave serpents lol EVERYTHING off the table. Look beyond that to armies that aren't just bursting at the seems with ignores cover and I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Raiders being used more as transports is a thing, because now with night shields giving stealth, that's a 3+ cover save. As fast as they are, that's a turn 2 assault threat. Now, the cynical way to look at this is that wave serpents are going to lol this off the table, but just remember that wave serpents lol EVERYTHING off the table. Look beyond that to armies that aren't just bursting at the seems with ignores cover and I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. they also allow you to shoot from inside the transport, not a huge edge, but it's something. But to your point Flu...fluger, it's about the payload at that point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Did you look at that new webway portal? I'm seeing lots of potential for abuse with regards to allies: If a model with a webway portal is in reserves or ongoing reserves, then the model and any unit it has joined or embarked upon has the deep strike special rule. This model, and his unit, will not scatter if arriving from deep strike reserve. So, in example, D-flamer wraithguard attached to a DE IC with webway portal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 hmmmm well looks as if my harlequins will be mostly standard Eldar… with some allied units from the DE book so far… but I will wait till things shake out -d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I don't remember but how does jink affect passengers? I know the vehicle has to snap fire, but is there an impact to transported models? Might be worth picking up fast attack venoms for shooting options... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Did you look at that new webway portal? I'm seeing lots of potential for abuse with regards to allies: So, in example, D-flamer wraithguard attached to a DE IC with webway portal... Yeah, everyone's seen that. The problem is that it is turn 2+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 See, I see what GW was going for with DE. You have a lot of fast, glass-cannon units. You stay hidden in shadows and out of LOS for a few turns while the enemy's sense of dread increases and then strike mid-late game with overwhelming force thanks to all the PfP buffs. I see the cinema of what they are going for, but unless a board has enough LoS blocking terrain, they are in for a pretty tough fight. Honestly, I think WWP and fast transports are going to need to be coupled with an anchor unit like a big warrior squad with a Haemon and a couple of cronos. Regular FnP from turn one on and then just advance the Cronos and wait for crap to come in. As stated by AP though, the real bugbear is going to be popping transports. Lance en masse isn't really the answer and the lack of haywire on wyches is just sad. They were a good multi-tool unit, now...? I still want to see how wyche weapons interact with them. Anyway, I need to see the whole thing in front of me, but it does seem like this is going to be a lower tier army at first blush, something that can hang with most armies, but will fold up against any serious tournament list. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Also, I'm really glad to see you back on the 40k wagon, Torg. The hobby needs people like you with all your artistic skills and honest love for certain areas of fluff. We are all better off for you being involved. I am getting back into focus on the hobby - mostly looking at modeling and themes. I intend on getting back to capt. at OFCC … and to try to put together more of a "club" team focusing on fluff - paint - building terrain and that crafty side of things. Right now I am struggling with finding a new home base to play after I have moved to the south of the portland area. Focusing on Apoc when I can - and just fun semi competitive armies. I really just want to play more and have fun. thanks fluger -d 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Yeah, everyone's seen that. The problem is that it is turn 2+. Autarch helps for consistency with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I don't remember but how does jink affect passengers? I know the vehicle has to snap fire, but is there an impact to transported models? Might be worth picking up fast attack venoms for shooting options... great question, from the book pg. 89: When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made. If the unit Jinks, all MODELS IN THE UNIT WITH THIS SPECIAL RULE GAIN A 4+ COVER SAVE until the start of the next movement phase, but they can only fire Snap Shots until the end of their next turn. So my interpretation of that is....the passengers fire as normal. So a case for a raider with night shield loaded with your nuke squad. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Whoa, so they could just stay inside and keep kicking out shots at full BS with re-rolls (from splinter racks) while in a craft that is getting 3+ cover? That's...that's pretty freaking good actually. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Simple strike from shadows stating that De do not auto lose if they end turn with no models on the board could have been interesting! But alas no outta the box like that it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Raiders being used more as transports is a thing, because now with night shields giving stealth, that's a 3+ cover save. As fast as they are, that's a turn 2 assault threat. Now, the cynical way to look at this is that wave serpents are going to lol this off the table, but just remember that wave serpents lol EVERYTHING off the table. Look beyond that to armies that aren't just bursting at the seems with ignores cover and I can see some light at the end of the tunnel. The problem is that it's not just Serpents they struggle with; Tau, even if they aren't using tons of Markerlights, can also put enough shots into the transports to break them pretty easily. Daemons, SM, and Knights can all assault the crap out of DE and laugh at any return attacks they make; Orks can drown them in shots and bodies (though Lances are quite nice against Meganobz); IG still don't care about Poison and have enough guns to blast the transports down consistently; etc. DE just have too many weaknesses for what they are trying to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 The problem is that it's not just Serpents they struggle with; Tau, even if they aren't using tons of Markerlights, can also put enough shots into the transports to break them pretty easily. Daemons, SM, and Knights can all assault the crap out of DE and laugh at any return attacks they make; Orks can drown them in shots and bodies (though Lances are quite nice against Meganobz); IG still don't care about Poison and have enough guns to blast the transports down consistently; etc. DE just have too many weaknesses for what they are trying to do. You're absolutely correct AP, period. I think what we're trying to do, essentially, is what you did in your article, we're trying to find a few gems amongst the pooh. I don't think anyone will argue against you on any point, because honestly, there isn't much in the book that seems that cohesive or impressive at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 They are ally bait which is 7 th ed. I think we will see fewer and fewer stand alone books. The dark eldar will be great for allying with. I'm starting to realize that GW will leave holes in some armies expecially if they have battle brothers to fill with. I'm not sure if it is intentional, lazy, or good but think the days of a single book covering everything is going away.you can play a single book, even well but it won't be super competitive... Just a passing thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Well, like I said, I'm going to wait to see the dex in full before I pass judgement, but it seems like this dex is severely lacking. A few neat tricks like jinking and shooting or WWP or the Carnival detachment might offer some hopes, but, AP laid out the issues as I see them as well. Glass Cannons are great in theory, but they really require the right terrain to take advantage of what they want to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Ya know what would be cool? An army which allowed you to have more interactions with the terrain, kinda like they did with wood elves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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