Pax's Imperial Army (expanded topic from minotaur/exorcist thread)

[pretre]

I'd you want the special rules given by taking te champions of the great wolf detachment (or whatever it's called), you have to take that detachment.

 

You can take the formations separately.

[Guest]

I'd you want the special rules given by taking te champions of the great wolf detachment (or whatever it's called), you have to take that detachment.

 

You can take the formations separately.

Then I did misunderstand. Still, thanks.

 

Anyways.

 

Looking at various things, as I'm waiting until the first of the month to be able to buy the DA book and they are my main army....

 

SW Void Claw Formation would both fit the Lion Warrior theme and meld very well with a reserve army. Not sure if I'm going that route. Main drawback would be events that limit detachments, as it makes a single squad into an entire detachment. It also means an entire LC TDA unit, which I don't think is too viable, but it would arrive turn 1 and allow the rest of the army to re-roll reserves, which could matter a lot.

 

Helfrost guns on the dreads are nifty, but expensive.

 

Company of the great wolf detachment is very odd. It allows lots of elites and HQ without the normal required troops. It also has a LoW and Fort slot. I'll probably field this detachment, but I'm really not sure what direction to go with it. I can certainly see how a TWC army would benefit from it, but I'm not interested in that route.

[pretre]

If you don't mind expensive termies, you can do that.

[pretre]

You can also take two single servitors as your elites and grab a bunch of other stuff.

[Guest]

If you don't mind expensive termies, you can do that.

LC terminators are spendy in any codex. You are correct that these are more expensive than some. I read them at 48pts each, so 240pts for the min unit.

 

It does look like the formation would allow an LC terminator with a cyclone, which drives up the cost more, but is an option that could increase the viability of LC terminators in general. That would make them 265pts.

 

Anyway, says they arrive turn 1, and so long as they are on the table, I can re-roll reserves. As I read it, so long as they DS first, a Nemesis Strike Force (in example) would be able to re-roll turn 1 reserves if these were in the army. They don't have the traditional limitation of having to be on the table at the start of the turn to affect reserves.

 

Might be a conflict with 7th ed reserve rules, as I may be wrong regarding the order rolls and deep strikes happen.

 

The main limitation is that this is an entire detachment in this one squad, so including it would mean they'd be the entire SW detachment in most of my armies, as I like having the 3 detachments be different armies. Might not be a huge issue in a TDA army.

 

You can also take two single servitors as your elites and grab a bunch of other stuff.

I was thinking of fielding a dread or two anyway, and was considering a second HQ, so the detachment slots aren't the issue, I'm just not sure how best to make use of it.

[pretre]

The best buy is probably the iron priest on TWC. You said you weren't a fan though.

[Guest]

The best buy is probably the iron priest on TWC. You said you weren't a fan though.

I do think murderfang is pretty dangerous. With a Dread pod, he might work. He's pretty dirt cheap for what he is.

 

Arjac running solo is another option. He'd need a transport for himself, probably.

 

I do like those normal dreads too. At one point a while back, I had tested a dread build with a MM and ML on a ven dread. It was decent. That Helfrost could work there, instead of the MM. It's a better pair with ML, anyway. Spendy, so probably not viable on the ven dread. Still, an interesting option. Might look into this one.

[WestRider]

LC terminators are spendy in any codex. You are correct that these are more expensive than some. I read them at 48pts each, so 240pts for the min unit.

 

It does look like the formation would allow an LC terminator with a cyclone, which drives up the cost more, but is an option that could increase the viability of LC terminators in general. That would make them 265pts.

 

Anyway, says they arrive turn 1, and so long as they are on the table, I can re-roll reserves. As I read it, so long as they DS first, a Nemesis Strike Force (in example) would be able to re-roll turn 1 reserves if these were in the army. They don't have the traditional limitation of having to be on the table at the start of the turn to affect reserves.

 

Might be a conflict with 7th ed reserve rules, as I may be wrong regarding the order rolls and deep strikes happen.

I run them with a Cyclone and Arjac attached. Expensive, but having a SS/TH in the Unit makes them both significantly more durable and more flexible, plus he can split off later if he needs to.

 

You can't use their re-roll on the Turn they arrive tho, because of a timing issue. You have to make all the Reserves Rolls, and then start moving the the things that passed on to the table.

 

Murderface is a lot of fun, but he's no more durable than a regular Dread, and he's a pretty high-priority target. He's a good candidate for a Lucius Pattern pod (I think you've got one, might be misremembering that), for the extra protection it gives him on the Drop Turn.

[pretre]

As an aside, I double checked Champs and it is definitely only if you use the CotGW detachment or the formations in the book if you want the relics, special rules or warlord traits.

[Guest]

I run them with a Cyclone and Arjac attached. Expensive, but having a SS/TH in the Unit makes them both significantly more durable and more flexible, plus he can split off later if he needs to.

 

You can't use their re-roll on the Turn they arrive tho, because of a timing issue. You have to make all the Reserves Rolls, and then start moving the the things that passed on to the table.

 

Murderface is a lot of fun, but he's no more durable than a regular Dread, and he's a pretty high-priority target. He's a good candidate for a Lucius Pattern pod (I think you've got one, might be misremembering that), for the extra protection it gives him on the Drop Turn.

I did get a dreadpod, which, yeah, adds a whole layer of viability to dreads. It is horribly expensive, though.

 

Thanks for the correction on the turn 1 reserves. I thought it was iffy.

 

Can Arjac attach? I'm unclear on that point.

 

More so, if my only SW detachment is the void claws, can I field Arjac?

[WestRider]

Arjac can Join them. Unless specifically stated, Formations are only limited for List Construction purposes. Joining him to the Void Claws is no different than Joining him to an Allied SM Squad or whatever.

 

You can't take Arjac as part of the Formation, tho, since he's not an option for that Unit, and that Unit is the only thing allowed in the Detachment.

[Guest]

Arjac can Join them. Unless specifically stated, Formations are only limited for List Construction purposes. Joining him to the Void Claws is no different than Joining him to an Allied SM Squad or whatever.

 

You can't take Arjac as part of the Formation, tho, since he's not an option for that Unit, and that Unit is the only thing allowed in the Detachment.

Then you confirm my reading on both points. Thanks.

 

So voidclaws are probably out, unless my army is too point-heavy for a larger SW/Lion Warrior contingent.

[Guest]

DA book related. Just in case no one else noticed, a big advantage of the relic mace in the DA book is that it is a non-specialist melee weapon which can replace a TDA model's ranged weapon.

 

So, in example, a TDA captain can get a bonus attack with a power weapon and the Mace. Likewise, the Interigator Chappy can have dual melee weapons while keeping his Badge of Office power maul and having TDA.

[Guest]

Do you own any instamold?  Pick some up, if you don't.  When you decide on a chapter and it's iconography, do yourself a favor.  Say, like above you mention "just needing a mane" on a SW Shoulder Pad.  Sculpt the mane, let it set, then make Instamold of the newly made Lion.  Green stuff, trim, glue to blank Shoulder Pad.

 

I've done this for DAAAAAAAYS with my Nightlords.  I picked up 4 of the Metal Conversion kits before it occurred to me.  I don't consider this green stuff duplicating of the skulls/wings from the NL shoulder pads the same as making a mold and resin copies of the entire shoulder pad.  

I'll admit, very tempted to try casting those Dread Pods. Love the model, but there's just no way I'm going to be able to afford a second or third one, even if I want it.

[Guest]

Any luck with Bjorn?

 

I like the IDEA of the dread HQ model, but the high unit cost and low initiative really worry me. He'd still swing before unwieldy weapons, and he is krak immune, but seems iffy in assault and lacks the damage output to justify being a range-only unit.

 

Now, I can place him inside a Storm Raven (GK allies), a FW Dread Pod, or run him on foot. I'm just wary that even with all that, he won't be worth the investment. Thoughts?

[Guest]

So, I know blood of kittens already has one sort of like this, but check this out:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datasheet_%28Warhammer_40,000%29

[WestRider]

Any luck with Bjorn?

 

I like the IDEA of the dread HQ model, but the high unit cost and low initiative really worry me. He'd still swing before unwieldy weapons, and he is krak immune, but seems iffy in assault and lacks the damage output to justify being a range-only unit.

 

Now, I can place him inside a Storm Raven (GK allies), a FW Dread Pod, or run him on foot. I'm just wary that even with all that, he won't be worth the investment. Thoughts?

He does have a 5++ as well. Can't really stand against Dedicated CC Units like Hammernators or Assault Cents, but he's decent against stuff like Units where it's just the Squad Leader with an AT weapon. And even more so with some support. If he's got another Unit in there to get BtB with some or all of the guys who can hurt him, that helps a ton.

 

Storm Raven seems really spendy to me, and puts a lot of Points in Reserves. Drop Pod is a solid option. On foot, he's really too slow to do much, that basically just turns him into a really expensive Plasma Cannon or Lascannon.

 

Also, speaking of the Dread Pods, look around on google, there are some good guides to scratch-building them, some of which don't look too hard.

[Guest]

He does have a 5++ as well. Can't really stand against Dedicated CC Units like Hammernators or Assault Cents, but he's decent against stuff like Units where it's just the Squad Leader with an AT weapon. And even more so with some support. If he's got another Unit in there to get BtB with some or all of the guys who can hurt him, that helps a ton.

 

Storm Raven seems really spendy to me, and puts a lot of Points in Reserves. Drop Pod is a solid option. On foot, he's really too slow to do much, that basically just turns him into a really expensive Plasma Cannon or Lascannon.

 

Also, speaking of the Dread Pods, look around on google, there are some good guides to scratch-building them, some of which don't look too hard.

Same conclusions, good we agree, I suppose. Was hoping I misread something.

 

That "Armour of Asvald Stormwrack" counts as terminator armor, right? It's in the flavor text, sure, but I wanted to double check that it can't be combined with a mount, bike, or jump pack...? How about that "Armor of Russ"?

[WestRider]

The Armour of Asvald Stormwrack is weird. It's supposed to be a suit of Terminator Armour, yeah, but it doesn't have the usual restrictions mentioned there on combo-ing it with other gear. It also doesn't upgrade the wearer's weapons like Terminator Armour usually does, so I'd only recommend it for a Rune Priest, Wolf Priest, or a Wolf Lord who's also packing the Relic Wolf Claws (The CoF Relics don't have the one-per-Model restriction), because otherwise you're going to be badly overpaying or stuck with a dude in Terminator Armour carrying a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword.

 

The Armour of Russ, on the other hand is just Runic Armour, so it can definitely combo freely with a Bike, Jump Pack, or TW Mount.

[Guest]

The Armour of Asvald Stormwrack is weird. It's supposed to be a suit of Terminator Armour, yeah, but it doesn't have the usual restrictions mentioned there on combo-ing it with other gear. It also doesn't upgrade the wearer's weapons like Terminator Armour usually does, so I'd only recommend it for a Rune Priest, Wolf Priest, or a Wolf Lord who's also packing the Relic Wolf Claws (The CoF Relics don't have the one-per-Model restriction), because otherwise you're going to be badly overpaying or stuck with a dude in Terminator Armour carrying a Bolt Pistol and Chainsword.

 

The Armour of Russ, on the other hand is just Runic Armour, so it can definitely combo freely with a Bike, Jump Pack, or TW Mount.

A jump pack terminator is funny image and it would be fun to model. Still, I think you are right.

[WestRider]

Amusingly, the Armour of Asvald Stormwrack would be another way to make that Rune Priest Stoobert was asking about work.

[Guest]

Hmmm....so many options.

 

First, I totally understand why all the SW lists feature thunderwolves. It's just too cheap for what it does, and too good to not field. Going to be hard to resist. I really don't want them in my army.

 

Second, this SW book has far too many awesome options. I hate the SW fluff, but they really have an awesome set of rules this time around (last book was awesome too).

 

Harald Deathwolf is really tempting as a DA Scout Marine attachment. I love my scouts. Most ICs would limit the scouts, but he can outflank with them, and even gives them acute senses. I love the flamer immunity too, as that is often the bane of scouts. Still, I don't want the thunderwolves in my army.

 

Arjac is awesome. S10 ap 2 ranged attack at BS5 with a unit that both deep strikes and can use teleport homers. Very DA friendly.

 

That said, I think my Lion Warriors are going a direction of aggressive melee, with initiative order weapons and some jump packs, so no arjac or Harald Deathwolf for now. I really want to distinguish these Lion Warriors from the Space Wolves, and part of that is that Lions just aren't mounts....

[Guest]

 I really want to distinguish these Lion Warriors from the Space Wolves, and part of that is that Lions just aren't mounts....

 

That said, found this guy:

http://www.shieldwolfminiatures.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=75

Probably could make a lion rider out of it. Still, tamed lions seem questionable at best.

[WestRider]

SW Jump options aren't on the same level as the TWC, but they're far from bad. SkyClaws can get the full range of Special Weapons, and they're nice and cheap, while Wolf Guard with Jump Packs are pretty reasonably priced compared to BA Vanguard Vets. They still pay regular price for their Weapons, tho, so SM Vanguard come out way cheaper if you're tooling them up.

[Guest]

SW Jump options aren't on the same level as the TWC, but they're far from bad. SkyClaws can get the full range of Special Weapons, and they're nice and cheap, while Wolf Guard with Jump Packs are pretty reasonably priced compared to BA Vanguard Vets. They still pay regular price for their Weapons, tho, so SM Vanguard come out way cheaper if you're tooling them up.

Yea, agree on all points. I think it really comes down to the synergy with the rest of my army. Within my projected 3-detachment DA/GK/AM/SW/Assassin selection, I can go a lot of directions.