Pax's Imperial Army (expanded topic from minotaur/exorcist thread)

[Guest]

On a side note, in re-reading the template weapon rules, looks like template weapons that hit open topped vehicles also flame the guys inside just like the building. Those poor orks, that really sucks for them (though does allow a solid argument for 'ard cases). DE too. Still, would make the above more practical against opponents without occupied buildings.

This turned out to be really important against the orks in the third game. The thing I only considered after playing today, is that the Callidus Assassin has that AP2 wounds on 4s template. The ability to arrive anywhere and pump out D6 auto hits at AP2 to models inside a building or open-topped transport is something I hadn't considered for her and is worth revisiting.

[Guest]

Got a "trial" copy of the cult mechanicus last night, then bought a real version from GG today. That codex is exactly what I've been looking for.

 

I decided I'm not going with minotaurs as above. In fact, I think I'm going to ditch my SM and GK and focus on pure DA as my sole marine army. I'll be selling the GK, but the marines will be saved for DA related when the new book launches. Going to build a small Cult Mechanicus allied detachment, flesh out my AM, and keep one Vindicare assassin. Probably not all 4 detachments in one list, but I've really wanted to lock down a "consistent" army for quite some time. EDIT: I might include Minotaurs if the DA don't get access to assault centurions this time around.

 

As for reasoning, the key issue I keep running into with GK or SM with my DA is that the required troops and HQs are just too similar. They feel redundant. I find my armies get weaker as I'm forced to include too many similar mandatory units. The other issue, with GK in particular, is that they are just too aggressive for my playstyle.

 

I know it's a bit uncommon, but I'm a firm believer that a list should not include duplicate entries, as the duplication makes the army easier to predict. I don't always do this, but I do try to, especially when fielding painted units.

[Guest]

Cult mechanicus and a few others rules interaction notes:

 

-Schism of Mars Legacy on the LR achilles was OP against my mechanics opponent for the second game. Since it ignores the effects of the haywire rule on a 4+, I to take normal saves (if any), then the roll to ignore the effects. I had the PFG in range for most of the game and it meant a 4++ followed by a 4+ against his haywire weapons. In this game, the legacy was downright broken. I think it would be more effective on a vehicle that has access to another save type already, like a flyer with jink. We'll see what GW does with the DA flyers in the next codex. Mind you, only in this game was it broken, the orks and GK opponents didn't even notice the 25pts of legacy...

 

-Kastelan Robot Repulsor Grid grants a potent offensive ability which is more broken the better the robot's save is (any type of save, though only against shooting). Azrael and the Sanctuary psychic power, in example, for a 3++ would make them really broken. Going the Darkshroud + bolstered ruin route for 2+ cover would also be pretty broken.

 

-Holy Requisitioner Formation. Really love this formation as it really is a set of the only cult mechanicus units I want to field. That said, I'd lose objective secured on those sweet breacher troops. Not sure if it would be worthwhile. Add a locator beacon or a Augur array and we could get them to land where ever I needed them. A great allied formation option for Deathwing, in particular.

[WestRider]

Regardless of how good your Save is, the Repulsor Grid only bounces shots on 6s.

 

For the Holy Requisitioner+Locator Beacon or whatever, I guess it does depend on what missions you tend to play. I overwhelmingly play Maelstrom, so there are always 6 Objectives for me to land on without Scatter, so I don't feel much need for any more assist.

[Guest]

Regardless of how good your Save is, the Repulsor Grid only bounces shots on 6s.

 

For the Holy Requisitioner+Locator Beacon or whatever, I guess it does depend on what missions you tend to play. I overwhelmingly play Maelstrom, so there are always 6 Objectives for me to land on without Scatter, so I don't feel much need for any more assist.

Well, this is true, though my concern would be that they arrive turn 2+ so finding an unguarded objective might be difficult. You may be right, though, that I'm overcautious here.

 

As for replusor grid, you are correct, only 6s bounce shots back. Was tinkering with them as a mid-backfield unit with stealth and in a bolstered ruin so not only would they bounce some shots, but that they'd save really well too.

[Guest]

Anyway, I've no real interest in those robots for my army.

 

I think I'm going to convert up a Breacher unit and a Dominus Techpriest for use with my DA. Maybe two units of breachers at the 3-man level so I can be eligible for that holy requisitioner formation (even if I'll likely be sticking to the objective secured CAD or Allied Detachment).

 

Not sure on the weapons. I like the Torsion Cannons, but I think the heavy arc would be a more viable option if the unit intends to be stationary objective holder, just due to more range. There is also some logic using the Raiment of the Technomartyr so they can assist AA efforts, which would be pretty awesome with those Heavy Arc Cannons and fits with my current approach of only land-based AA options (not really planed as such, just DA don't have the air options I want to field, nor do the admech or the AM).

[Guest]

So, yeah, took a peak in that SW codex. Makes me miss fielding lukas. Would be totally wrong to include them, but I also kinda want to add in a SS dreadnought, plus I love the idea of an HQ dreadnought, even if he really isn't worth the point cost. Suppose I could add some SW that saw reason, you know, the rare "civilized" sons of Russ...lol, love this ribbing of Russ, so glad I switched to DA.

 

Modeling SW as DA would be pretty funny.

 

On another note, I finally noticed that those CM Breachers are basically tracked attack bikes. So I don't really need to add CM, I'll add some tracked RW attack bike squadrons and a "super" techmarine. Army stays completely DA (in fluff).

 

Then add some Defenders of Caliban (AM) and I'm set.

 

Yeah, I know, too many detachments for ITC. I don't really care on that point. For events, I care, but for casual or loosely organized play, I like thinking of my Imperial army as one army.

[Guest]

Let's see, some progress.

 

Got a DA drop pod I've been working on for a bit and finally got some piping bits the right size for the doors. It's going to look like a mini-castle tower (like a chess piece), but with 5 medieval doors which open (doors from the darkworld board game). As much as I like that haywire immunity legacy, I'm thinking a legendary drop pod would be the most fun for casual play (and light event gaming). Not sure which legacy, or what is being transported, but I think it will be fun.

 

Actual DA rules and lists are on hold due to codex release.

 

Started thinking about the DA with SW allies and it finally hit me that it really wouldn't be that hard to paint the brown/grey wolf iconography as lions, which would fit with the DA fluff.

 

I might ditch the CM like I did the Skitarii. Just too many armies.

[Guest]

More mental progress. Searched the Lexicanium site for alternate chapter ideas for those allied "SW." Found a chapter with a paint theme, but little details beyond that, called the Lion Warriors. Paint theme is very close to the Minotaurs, which is good, because I really like the minotaur's gold, but they'd never ally with dark angels, or rather, dark angels would never ally with them.

 

That chapter logo is perfect for making from a SW wolf, too. Just add a mane....

 

After looking at alternate chapters for SW, got to thinking that it would be pretty cool if I could get some of my nicely painted Exorcists models to be DA models without much re-painting. Switching from Red to Green is pretty damaging from a painting standpoint. Found these guys, which would work pretty well and could be mingled with my DA without issues:

 

Those would be "Guardians of the Covenant."Just add a bit of silver and change the chapter logo for the Exorcists Space Marines, rather than re-painting the entire model.

[Guest]

Okay, 2k GG league list for tonight. List largely based on the Annihilation event list, just so I don't have to make a new list....I'm not really concerned with list making or winning, as my new DA codex is right around the corner and I really plan some serious changes for the next version of my army.

 

DA CAD

HQ Libby (TDA)

Non-slot HQ Techmarine (Power Field Generator, Warlord)

Elites Siege Dreadnought (Flamestorm)

-Dreadpod

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Troops Scouts (5, snipers)

Troops Tactical (5, Flamer, Sarge with BP+Power Sword)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Heavy LR Achilles (Schism of Mars)

Heavy Helios (Hyperious AA mount)

Heavy Predator (TL Lascannon, Dozer)

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Total 2k even.

[Guest]

Okay, 2k GG league list for tonight. List largely based on the Annihilation event list, just so I don't have to make a new list....I'm not really concerned with list making or winning, as my new DA codex is right around the corner and I really plan some serious changes for the next version of my army.

 

DA CAD

HQ Libby (TDA)

Non-slot HQ Techmarine (Power Field Generator, Warlord)

Elites Siege Dreadnought (Flamestorm)

-Dreadpod

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Troops Scouts (5, snipers)

Troops Tactical (5, Flamer, Sarge with BP+Power Sword)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Heavy LR Achilles (Schism of Mars)

Heavy Helios (Hyperious AA mount)

Heavy Predator (TL Lascannon, Dozer)

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Total 2k even.

Okay, so weird game night.

 

Got an opponent, then an odd person showed up. Offered to play 3-way, which would have been fine for a fun, but they decided they'd rather not play and left early.

 

So original opponent had a 2k TAU clearly being played for the first time. After spending an entire hour arranging his models into squads and deploying, he siezed intiative. He optted to skip the movement phase, despite much suggestions to move things. He then proceded to roll box cars with his only 2 units with LOS and range. He then insisted that Longstrike could shoot through buildings without LOS to anything. I suggested he could the move the model, then fire, since he skipped his move phase and was not in LOS. This was met with high objections and he quit (rage quit). I never got a turn and we were an hour and 15 minutes into the game night.

 

Yet another opponent showed up, this one just late enough to miss the one that left early. I suggested we play, despite the time, since my opponent had left and he was without one. His sisters and I had a great game which was very close and lasted 2 and a half turns. He won with an extra turn, but we both very much enjoyed it and it was very much up in the air on who would win if we had more time.

 

 So unit by unit.

 

Dreadpod was awesome again, as was the embarked dread. Landed turn 1 and stunned an Exorcist's rear armor with the Flamestorm Cannon.

 

Vindicares were iffy. Both failed to kill anything with shooting due to missing and failing to wound with hellfire shots. That said, one vindicare managed to tie up 13 sisters for the majority of the game.

 

LR helios was a total waste. I mean, the lascannons were impressive, but the hyperious mount had no flyers (again!) to shoot at. Every time I bring AA, my opponents don't bring flyers, despite pre-built lists with random opponents.

 

Mortis Dreads were awesome again. Worth every point. They got stunned opponent's turn 1 via Exorcists and on my turn 1 each managed a pen on the Sister's Imperial knight (yeah, not pure sisters).

 

Libby forgot both his two psychic phases. But he still tanked battle cannon shots for the tactical/warlord unit. Very effective warlord bodyguard...

 

Warlord's Power field generator was awesome again. That haywire resistant, melta & lance immune land raider really puts up a fight with a 4++, even in the daunting presence of a super heavy walker. It didn't hurt that he failed charges twice with the imperial knight. Warlord did die, and in hindsight, the PFG isn't very practical if I want to also attempt repair rolls, as it means he has to move out of position in order to get to base contact and repair things.

 

Scouts were amazing. Aside from their typically holding of a backfield objective, they managed to pen and destroy an immolator with a lucky sniper shot (only 1 HP left, so a glance would have also worked).

 

Tactical squad with PFG tanked wounds like a champ, but did get wiped out. Didn't do anything else all game. It was very helpful to my army, though, to have them tanking wounds.

 

Tempests were decent. They have been consistently decent in all my games. Never amazing and never horrible, just decent. One died to Dominion shooting (ignores cover with 4 melta guns...) after knocking some HP off their transport. Other one used after burners to seek a backfield objective which would have been claimed in turns not played (due to time)

 

That LR Achilles is amazing. A must have in every list. Very tactical unit in function, as it can be impressive at long range (thunderfire) and at close range (TL MM sponsons). The Defensive abilities are very difficult to cope with for enemy units, as well, which really does allow me to control the game in a certain sense, as the opponent often has only a few units which can easily destroy it (and lots that can destroy it with great risk or effort).

[Guest]

Don't have the new DA book, but pretre posted this keen online copy:

http://m.imgur.com/a/0zgd7

Thank you, pretre.

 

So, if I go vehicle heavy (which is my default), I'm thinking something along the lines of:

 

Disiples of Caliban "DA" Hammer of Caliban Formation

-Techmarine

-LRR

-Pred

-Pred

-Pred

 

Lion Warriors "SW" Brethren of the Fell-Handed Formation

-Bjorn

-Venerable Dread (MM+DCCW)

-Venerable Dread (MM+DCCW)

 

Catachan "AM" Steel Host Formation

-Tank Commander (2, 1 Command and 1 stock Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Hydra Flakk Tank (1)

 

Minimum cost for the 3-formation army: 1775pts (1745pts if Preds are instead Whirlwinds). Seems like quite a bit of wiggle room and certainly looks like a fun list to run, though somewhat limited in tactical flexibility. Only model listed I'd need to buy would be the 5th Leman Russ, others I have, though many, like the dreads, would require some conversion.

[Guest]

That was a min list. At 1850pts, more like this:

 

Disiples of Caliban "DA" Hammer of Caliban Formation

-Techmarine (Combat Shield)

-LR

-Pred(TL Lascannon)

-Pred (TL Lascannon)

-Pred (TL Lascannon)

 

Lion Warriors "SW" Brethren of the Fell-Handed Formation

-Bjorn (TL Lascannon)

-Venerable Dread (SS+DCCW)

-Venerable Dread (SS+DCCW)

 

Death World "AM" Steel Host Formation

-Tank Commander (2, 1 Command Lion El Jonson Vanquisher and 1 Lion El Jonson Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Lion El Jonson Squadron (1, Erradicator)

-Hydra Flakk Tank (1)

 

Total 1850pts

[InfestedKerrigan]

Do you own any instamold?  Pick some up, if you don't.  When you decide on a chapter and it's iconography, do yourself a favor.  Say, like above you mention "just needing a mane" on a SW Shoulder Pad.  Sculpt the mane, let it set, then make Instamold of the newly made Lion.  Green stuff, trim, glue to blank Shoulder Pad.

 

I've done this for DAAAAAAAYS with my Nightlords.  I picked up 4 of the Metal Conversion kits before it occurred to me.  I don't consider this green stuff duplicating of the skulls/wings from the NL shoulder pads the same as making a mold and resin copies of the entire shoulder pad.  

[Guest]

Do you own any instamold?  Pick some up, if you don't.  When you decide on a chapter and it's iconography, do yourself a favor.  Say, like above you mention "just needing a mane" on a SW Shoulder Pad.  Sculpt the mane, let it set, then make Instamold of the newly made Lion.  Green stuff, trim, glue to blank Shoulder Pad.

It's a good suggestion, but not my thing. I have experimented, but I really do like the unique look best (each one looking a bit different). I'm not a fan of perfection in my painting, as I think they should look painted. I do pick armies, these days, with hand painting their logos in mind.

 

That Lion Warrior one should be easy, but I'm not certain on the Disiples of Caliban. Probably really simple once I get the hang of it.

 

I will probably be using some green stuff on a few of the Lion Warriors options, to make the SW logos really blend without major conversions.

[Guest]

Various things:

 

Lion Warriors base coat is awesome. The Duplicolor Gold spray paint turned out great. I think this is going to be a pretty army and look very good next to my DA.

 

Got some LC terminators and I'm thinking that it would be very thematic to go LC heavy on the Lion Warriors (paired "lion" claws). I am tempted to go with Murderfang on this front too. Was wanting to field Lukas anyway. It would also distinguish between my DA better, as I tend towards TH/SS, power fists and such with my DA.

 

Found that GW does make a lion model about the size of the Ferisan Wolves, the HE lion chariot. Pretty models, too. I'm not planing any thunder-wolves, but I like the idea of a lion unit, even if only to reinforce the theme. Only two sculpts, but that's perfect for attaching them to characters.

 

After inspecting the SW logos I already have, I'm thinking I won't need to change it any. If I modify the chapter logo so it's a more "lively" lion, with a yellow head and brown mane (as opposed to solid gold for both), it should be easy enough to disguise SW logos as Lion Warrior ones. I can still hand paint the logo on some of the more blank shoulder pads.

 

Read through the Champions of Fenris Supplement. They've got a relic paired "Lion" Claws option. They also have a tempting detachment option which doesn't require troops, but requires elites. I'm unclear if the Champions of Fenris can be fielded as a CAD or Allied Detachment.

 

DA codex was released, and I did purchase the Datacards, but I have to wait on the codex until next month (within the week). I'm very psyched. Though, I'll admit, part of me wants to switch to my Daemon army which has been neglected of late.

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

The lions are easy models to work with you can also use the lion mounts from mantic as they will look more like cavalry and you could use them as you bikers if you want to go all crazy. The marines do look a little big on both models, but from the 10ft mark they still look good.

 

Mantic is far more affordable in quantity too.

 

Should make for an interesting looking army.

[pretre]

Champions of Fenris (ie space wolves) can be fielded as cad, allied, wolves unleashed det (from c:SW) or champions of the great wolf det (from champs of Fenris).

[WestRider]

Champions of Fenris (ie space wolves) can be fielded as cad, allied, wolves unleashed det (from c:SW) or champions of the great wolf det (from champs of Fenris).

And the Formations from CoF, too.

[pretre]

Yeah, I was only counting detachments

[Guest]

Champions of Fenris (ie space wolves) can be fielded as cad, allied, wolves unleashed det (from c:SW) or champions of the great wolf det (from champs of Fenris).

Thanks. Was torn between Objective secured and their rules. No more division.

[Guest]

On a side note, I can't seem to take Morkai's Claws on a runepriest or wolfpriest via battle scribe. Any reason you can think of that they wouldn't be eligible? Or is it just another battlescribe error?

[WestRider]

Probably just a BattleScribe error, since they can't take normal options that would replace their Crozius/Runic Weapon. I would guess the coding was done sloppily, so it just disallowed anything that would replace those.

[pretre]

Thanks. Was torn between Objective secured and their rules. No more division.

I think you may have misconstrued my statement. You can't take the champions detachment as a cad. You can take space wolves as a cad.

[Guest]

I think you may have misconstrued my statement. You can't take the champions detachment as a cad. You can take space wolves as a cad.

Huh.

 

Champions of Fenris (ie space wolves) can be fielded as cad, allied, wolves unleashed det (from c:SW) or champions of the great wolf det (from champs of Fenris).

 

So, if I want the special rules of the "champions of fenris" I have only the Detachent/formation options from that supplement?