Pax's Imperial Army (expanded topic from minotaur/exorcist thread)

[pretre]

I think losing the Cerb is a good idea though.

[Guest]

It's certainly very shooty. 

Is that good? Is it enough shooting?

[pretre]

I think it is okay. It isn't my cup of tea and I think you'll suffer from not being able to go out and grab objectives (especially in a Maelstrom heavy environment like Annihilationing). That being said, if you're looking to have a solid shoot-em-up and play some fun games, you should be fine.

[generalripphook]

I think the land speeder's do a good job of doing that objective grabbing, personally I think you should drop the grey knight addition for either jump troops for the chappy or more troops in drop pods. 

 

I would go for the drop pod so you can drop them on objectives to help contest or make them dedicate objective secured to it. 

 

and personally if you are going for over whelm them with armor then the vindicator is just gonna be demolished by light weapon fire.

 

Could you sub them out and get a fortification for your tactical squad to sit in? 

[WestRider]

You would need a distinctive paint scheme from the other land raiders in your army that aren't DWV.

 

 

So then is the paint scheme related to WYSIWYG?

They just need to be differentiated. So, if you only have VenDreads in the Army, it totally doesn't matter. If you only have regular Dreads in the Army, it doesn't matter. If you have both, the VenDreads don't necessarily have to be painted DeathWing, they just have to have something that distinguishes them from the regular ones.

[Guest]

I think it is okay. It isn't my cup of tea and I think you'll suffer from not being able to go out and grab objectives (especially in a Maelstrom heavy environment like Annihilationing). That being said, if you're looking to have a solid shoot-em-up and play some fun games, you should be fine.

Yeah, I'm really not a very mobile player. That said, the tempests have that "after burner" rule that let's them move as flyers for a turn, so they can really cover ground should they last long enough to do so. Vindicare and scouts could infiltrate or outflank as needed. Tanks can move about, too, if needed. So although not really a mobile list, it isn't without options.

 

Though, the mobility thought reminds me I need to add dozer blades to the preds, as it gives them +1 strength ram attacks, for a total of S8, I think. It can be a useful option, as the ram cuts through jink and imperial knight invulnerable saves.

 

 

I think the land speeder's do a good job of doing that objective grabbing, personally I think you should drop the grey knight addition for either jump troops for the chappy or more troops in drop pods. 

 

I would go for the drop pod so you can drop them on objectives to help contest or make them dedicate objective secured to it. 

 

and personally if you are going for over whelm them with armor then the vindicator is just gonna be demolished by light weapon fire.

 

Could you sub them out and get a fortification for your tactical squad to sit in? 

VINDICARE. The vindicator is the FA13 tank with the hull demolisher cannon.

 

I did understand your point. You are correct that the Vindicare dies easy to small arms fire. He's one of those models that either dies early on or lives though the entire game. They did buff his range in this edition, as he's now a 72" sniper, so he can really stay in the backfield. He can also use his special ammo on his pistol now, so he's got some value being used via the outflank rule. I have debated the idea of running him inside the Achilles, then spitting him out in pistol range - probably not viable, but it's an interesting option and works well with the achilles lacking an assault ramp.

 

Agree the GK aren't great. Probably won't use them. The GK codex is good, just not my selection at the moment.

 

In terms of buildings, I own 4: FSR, Vengeance weapon battery, GI joe playset, and the promethium pipes. I also have a bunch of tank traps.

 

FSR is horrible in this edition, at least, if you have legitimate AA options without it. Don't know how familiar others are with the above, but the Mortis Dreads gain skyfire and interceptor if they are stationary in the previous movement phase. The Tempests come stock with a TL missile launcher with all three missile types(frag, krak, & flakk) and an assault cannon, so they are also solid AA options. Basically, my list has 4 AA units which can also fire at ground targets without issue. FSR, on the other hand, has to snap at ground targets via those quad lascannons due to 7th's changes to skyfire+interceptor, making it an extremely overpriced AA option.

 

GI joe playset (aka fortress of redemption) is fun, but is way too large for me to transport to this event. It also has lots of issues at events, as it really is too large for 6' x 4' table deployment zones.

 

Vengeance batteries are awful in the AA role, as they lack the FSR's rule that allows them to shoot the nearest flyer/FMC, so they get stuck snapping at the nearest target. If I ran them, they'd be battlecannons or punishers. I have been considering this option. Main thing is that I don't think my list needs more S8 ap3 shooting, so I'd need the punisher route and I often debate if those are viable. I'll think about it.

 

Pipes really don't fit in this list, but I otherwise like them.

 

Beyond that, The reason the tactical squad is without a transport is to attack the powerfield generator to them. The PFG is FAQed to not give bonuses via vehicle hulls, so if they go inside a transport, they lose their role in the army. I could ditch the PFG route, which I have considered, but I'm undecided.

[Guest]

In an unrelated post, was thinking that a pod dread with TL AC and MM would be pretty practical for void shield bunker busting. Drop down, target the bunker, use TL AC first to punch out the void shield, then the MM on the bunker itself. Not perfect, but a decent way to short out those buildings with a single void shield (like a plasma oblit or FSR).

[WestRider]

If you're in double dice range on the MM, you're inside the Void Shield anyhow, and don't need to pop the shield first.

[Guest]

If you're in double dice range on the MM, you're inside the Void Shield anyhow, and don't need to pop the shield first.

Ah...fail. How do I miss these?

[Guest]

Okay, so another idea would be to take the Isstvan V Drop Site Massacre on a Drop Pod. Would mean ditching Schism of Mars, as only 1 legacy at 1850pts (1 per 1k in the army). Isstvan V Drop Side Massacre makes the pod not scatter with DS. Lots of applications. It's 20pts on top of the drop pod cost.

 

The biggest temptation, at the moment, would a Siege Dreadnought with Flamestorm cannon. I just really love the idea of DSing and stealing my opponent's building by flaming out the marines concealed inside. It's not a torrent weapon, so it really wouldn't be very reliable without the legacy. I drop within flamer range, flame a heavy flamer (fist mounted by default to the siege dread) and flamestorm at point blank. Would deal d6 S6 ap3 hits and another d6 S5 ap4 hits.

 

On a side note, in re-reading the template weapon rules, looks like template weapons that hit open topped vehicles also flame the guys inside just like the building. Those poor orks, that really sucks for them (though does allow a solid argument for 'ard cases). DE too. Still, would make the above more practical against opponents without occupied buildings.

 

Back to the dread, it is true that I'd have to enter the building to claim it, so I can't steal a building with siege dread, but I could empty out it's contents.

 

I can also get the same build with a Chappy Dread for +25pts. I lose the assault drill melee ability, but gain re-rolls to hit in assault (my charge only), a venerable profile, and the venerable rule.

[WestRider]

You don't actually need that Legacy to pull that off. Max Scatter is 12", and then you can move to 6" from the Pod, and the Flamer Template is 8 1/4" long, so if your initial drop point is within 2" of the fire point you want to flame, it's impossible to Scatter too far to be able to hit it.

[Guest]

You don't actually need that Legacy to pull that off. Max Scatter is 12", and then you can move to 6" from the Pod, and the Flamer Template is 8 1/4" long, so if your initial drop point is within 2" of the fire point you want to flame, it's impossible to Scatter too far to be able to hit it.

You are correct, though the neat bit regarding the FW dreadpod is that you don't need to disembark to land and shoot. Effectively gives the dread 6 HP on the drop, plus the FW pod is shrouded on the turn it lands. So disembarking 6" would be wasteful, probably.

 

Another option on the dread end is the Contemptor, which can take the MM+Chainfist+HF+dreadpod, but is looking at 245pts for that combo without the legacy. I'm not a huge fan of the Contemptor dreads, as I think they're overpriced, but it would the route to get a proper chainfist, not one that only is able to get extra dice against stationary targets.

 

So, it's 170 for Siege dread+dreadpod, 195 for chappy dread+MM+HF+dreadpod, and 245 for Contemptor dread+chainfist+HF+MM+dreadpod. Of those,  Siege and chappy can freely swap the MM for a flamestorm, while the contemptor can only get TL HF.

[Guest]

Since we're very shooty anyway:

 

1850

 

DA CAD

HQ Chappy (MB, Bolter)

Non-slot HQ Techmarine (Power Field Generator, Warlord)

Elites Siege Dreadnought (MM or Flamestorm)

-Dreadpod

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Troops Scouts (5, snipers, Vet Sarge)

Troops Tactical (5, Flamer, Vet Sarge with BP+Power Sword)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Heavy LR Achilles (Schism of Mars)

Heavy Rapier Battery (4 marines, 2 guns, Laser Destroyers)

Heavy Predator (TL Lascannon, Dozer)

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Rapier battery rules leave it vague if DA get the listed "chapter tactics" so chappy is joining them. Techmarine is warlord only because he's got the best saves (2+/4++) and I really don't have many character options.

 

Still haven't decided if flamestorm or MM on the siege dread.

 

I think this is the final incarnation of the Annihilation list. For to-do's, most of it is gluing related, as I've given up on painting it entirely.

[Guest]

Found my TDA libby. Above list, but with level 1 TDA libby instead of chappy. I'm going with the flame storm cannon on the dread.

[Guest]

For tactical objective deck building, I removed all secure objective cards for objectives 5 and 6, plus supremacy and domination. Idea is to allow my less mobile list to focus on less objectives.

[Guest]

Psyker is rolling telekinesis and warlord techmarine will roll a strategic trait.

[pretre]

For tactical objective deck building, I removed all secure objective cards for objectives 5 and 6, plus supremacy and domination. Idea is to allow my less mobile list to focus on less objectives.

I thought about this, but what if your opponent forces you to the side with 5 and 6.

[WestRider]

Or even just if the 5 and 6 get split between the two zones.

[pretre]

I thought of doing it to minimize the impact of the 'Steal your opponent's card' one, but decided against it.

[WestRider]

Actually, depending on how you go about it, that might be an advantage to using one of the Faction-specific Decks. Since they only have two of each Secure Objective X, you could potentially clear 4 of the 6 Objectives out of your deck and just focus on the do or kill things cards.

[pretre]

Actually, depending on how you go about it, that might be an advantage to using one of the Faction-specific Decks. Since they only have two of each Secure Objective X, you could potentially clear 4 of the 6 Objectives out of your deck and just focus on the do or kill things cards.

This is a point. :)

[Guest]

Don't I need to have my warlord be of the faction in question? Does the DA have its own deck?

 

Anyway, list is mobile enough for a slow push towards 4 objectives, I just don't have the means to try for six.

[WestRider]

Yeah, sorry, I was tangenting there. It's not applicable to your list at this time.

[Guest]

So not now, but when the new book launches, I am going to have Minotaurs as allies to my DA. I'll go 4th company Minotaurs to have some green, then have som gold added to my DA. Should go good together.

[Guest]

Event ended. Had a great time. I had 3 games and 1 win. I ended up running this:

 

DA CAD

HQ Libby (TDA)

Non-slot HQ Techmarine (Power Field Generator, Warlord)

Elites Siege Dreadnought (MM or Flamestorm)

-Dreadpod

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Elites Mortis Dreadnought (Lascannons)

Troops Scouts (5, snipers, Vet Sarge)

Troops Tactical (5, Flamer, Vet Sarge with BP+Power Sword)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Fast Attack LS Tempest Squadron (1)

Heavy LR Achilles (Schism of Mars)

Heavy Rapier Battery (4 marines, 2 guns, Laser Destroyers)

Heavy Predator (TL Lascannon, Dozer)

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Officio Assassinorum Detachment

Elites Vindicare

 

Game 1 lost to pure GK. Opponent had a nasty unit with paladins, draigo, libby and stern that I just couldn't cope with. Game 2 won against skitarii+cult mechanicus. Just kept drawing maelstrom cards for objectives I already had. Game 3 lost to orks. Opponent wiped me with a very well constructed list. All the games were awesome.

 

Unit by unit evaluation:

 

Vindicare(s): I really only needed 1. They were certainly awesome and really helped keep my army transport-able, but I don't think I needed both.

 

TDA Libby: Did exactly what I intended him to do, make the artillery fearless and provide minor psychic defense/offense. Died every game. Sure glad I didn't make him warlord.

 

Warlord Techmarine: Did his job of vehicle power field defenses just fine. Bolstered terrain was helpful. Pretty sure I only lost him against the orks. Might have died against the GK too, but I don't think so.

 

Mortis Dreadnoughts with lascannons: Great unit, don't think I needed 2. Same value as the vindicare. Didn't help that none of my opponents had FMCs, skimmers, or flyers.

 

Siege Dreadnought with Flamestorm Cannon and Dreadpod: Amazing. Easily the VIP for every game. Flamestorm cannon was amazing. I will look into the Chappy dread option, as they can also take a flamestorm cannon. Siege assault drill was awesome for the heavy flamer and the DCCW, but I never got to use the flame the contents of a transport hit special rule.

 

Scout marines: Easily mediocre. They did great for being a cheap required unit.

 

Tactical Squad: Provided a good protection detail for my techmarine, not very impressive otherwise.

 

LS Tempests: Awesome unit. Much better in-game than on paper. The move as a flyer bit was great, as it enabled me to snag backfield objectives pretty easily. Shooting was also impressive.

 

LR Achilles: Another Awesome unit. Schism of Mars and the Thunderfire cannon were especially amazing in game 2 and really crippled the opponent's offensive (which had very few non-haywire solutions to Land Raiders). The 4++ was awesome here, too.

 

Rapier Battery: Not very effective offensively, but the unit both drew fire and deflected fire very efficiently. Going to have to look into the Quad Heavy bolter version, purely due to being cheaper.

 

Dozer TL Lascannon Predator: A good choice. Not Anything amazing, but he did contribute and didn't die quickly.

 

Things I missed having: Plasma cannons would have been really helpful in all games. I had no dedicated Melee unit and didn't include enough anti-cover options. I should have also had at least 1-3 more psyker levels, as a lvl 1 was not enough dispel dice to stop anything and was certainly lacking in casting powers against opponents with their own psykers.