Random House Rules

[PourSpelur]

I loved the old "Slain pink horrors spawn 2 blue horrors" rule.

[WestRider]

I support Chaos having access to everything Imperial, but Imperial not having access to everything Chaos. 

I'm not 100% behind that. I like having the differences go both ways. I do think Chaos should have more of the stuff that the Imperials do, but there are some things they shouldn't. For instance, CSM use different methods of implanting Geneseed and training new recruits, so they have no equivalent of any of the Scout Units, and even if they did have that much Anti-grav tech, wouldn't use the Land Speeder Storm. Or the Land Raider Crusader, which was created in something like M.37. (Or actually even the Predator Annihilator, which was created by the Space Wolves well after the Heresy.) I also like stuff like them still using the Reaper Autocannon instead of the Assault Cannon.

 

Really, tho, I want CSM split into two Dexes: Traitor Legions, and Renegade Space Marines. Renegades would have almost all the current SM stuff, but little access to Daemon Engines, Marks, more clearly Chaos Units like Oblits/Mutilators/Warp Talons, etc. Traitor Legions would be lacking all of the stuff that was introduced into the Imperial Armoury post-Heresy, and possibly some of the things that are currently dropped from them because, fluff-wise, they have maintenance issues that caused them to be discarded during the Scouring and War in the Eye, but would have access to all sorts of cool Daemon Engines and other heavily Chaos stuff. Both should have non-STC variants of the standard Vehicles and gear available.

[WestRider]

I was looking over the Goliath sprues, and other than the crew, nothing on there has any GSC markings at all. It would be pretty easy to add in a Chaos Cultist crew sprue, and Chaos Cults tend to grow in much the same circumstances as Stealer Cults. I totally think Chaos Culties should have access to it as a Dedicated Transport. Probably either with a limitation that it can only transport Culties, or that Models other than Culties count as twice as many as they normally would (e.g. 5 CSM could fit, or just two Terminators or other Bulky Models).

[Guest]

I loved the old "Slain pink horrors spawn 2 blue horrors" rule.

I love the fluff of this, but it is very demanding on the hobbyist, as it means having 3 models for evey one that starts on the table. 

 

I support Chaos having access to everything Imperial, but Imperial not having access to everything Chaos. 

I think Undivided and non-daemonic chaos/renegade forces of mankind could use an arsenal boost, but I think deity specific chaos should play very differently than the imperium.

 

I really wish 40k had a codex for the inbetween stage of armies no longer loyal to the imperium, but not yet corrupted by the chaos gods. There are a few marine chapters in the fluff like this. 

[WestRider]

Chapter Master Shrike:

- Usual stat and other improvements for a Captain to a Chapter Master, including Orbital Bombardment

- Battlefield Role changes to LoW

- Warlord Trait: Change to Silent Stalker

- The Raven's Talons have been upgraded further by the Chapter's Artificiers. They now Rend on rolls to Wound or penetrate Armour of 5+ instead of only 6s. Furthermore, you may choose to use Shred to re-roll successful Wounds that are not Rends, but must accept the second result, even if it is worse.

- Gains Hatred: Tau

[Guest]

Chapter Master Shrike:

- Usual stat and other improvements for a Captain to a Chapter Master, including Orbital Bombardment

- Battlefield Role changes to LoW

- Warlord Trait: Change to Silent Stalker

- The Raven's Talons have been upgraded further by the Chapter's Artificiers. They now Rend on rolls to Wound or penetrate Armour of 5+ instead of only 6s. Furthermore, you may choose to use Shred to re-roll successful Wounds that are not Rends, but must accept the second result, even if it is worse.

- Gains Hatred: Tau

Why hatred against TAU? That's like what has me pissed with that Exorcists Space Marine character from FW, he's S10 normally and has a special ability to re-roll wounds against daemons....  talk about a near useless ability.

 

Nah, you want a hatred TAU equivilent, have shrike give his army a special rule which subtracts 1 from to-hit rolls with markerlights, or perhaps requires TAU to spend more marker tokens to deny cover against his detachment.

 

EDIT: Silas Alberec (Exorcists Captain): He's s5 normally and he's got a Masterwork two handed thunderhammer which auto-wounds daemons and psykers.

[generalripphook]

You say that's useless but I don't know how many times I've rolled 1s to wound on a 2+

[Guest]

You say that's useless but I don't know how many times I've rolled 1s to wound on a 2+

Useless may be an exaggeration, but I'd much rather have a more useful ability than get one that basically boosts me in ways I already excel in.

 

Personally, if keep rolling 1s, doesn't really matter how amazing my army is, I should probably quit and get some rest.

 

Plus, the bigger issue for that character is that he's still striking at Initiative 1 and only has a 3+/4++. So he's not really able to kill daemons very well with that thing, as most daemons worth striking are going to swing first and kill him.

[WestRider]

It's a fluffy freebie Rule. It's not about Game Effectiveness. He'd be perfectly fine with that left entirely out, and just the other upgrades. It's about the fact that he got his job when Shadowsun managed to out-sneaky the Ravenguard and cut his former boss in half with a Fusion Collider.

[WestRider]

Replace the Blue Horrors Rule in the Pink Horrors of Tzeentch entry with the following:

 

Whenever a Pink Horror is slain or otherwise removed from play (except as a result of a failed Daemonic Instability Test), place a Blue Horror Token next to the Unit. At the end of the Phase, put 2 Blue Horrors in play for each Blue Horror Token. If there is an existing Unit of Blue Horrors within 6" of the Pink Horror Unit, the new Models may be added to it, placed anywhere in coherency, within 6" of the Pink Horror Unit, and more than 1" from enemy Models. If not, or if you wish to create a new Unit, simply place the Blue Horrors anywhere within 6" of the Pink Horror Unit, more than 1" from any enemy Models, and more than 2" from any Unit of friendly Blue Horrors you do not wish them to become part of. If at some point it becomes impossible to place Models according to these restrictions, the remaining Blue Horrors are lost. If the Pink Horror Unit is completely wiped out, leave a marker where the last Pink Horror was until the end of the Phase, and place the Blue Horrors within 6" of the marker instead, subject to the other restrictions above.

 

Blue Horrors have the following statline (underscores are just an attempt to make the spacing work out right):

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv

1 __ 2_ 1 2_ 1 1 1_ 7 -

They have the Brotherhood of Sorcerers, Daemon of Tzeentch, and Daemonic Instability Special Rules. However, the only Psychic Power they ever know is Flickering Fire of Tzeentch, and they can never attempt to manifest it at ML3. Furthermore, if there are 10 or fewer Models in the Unit, they generate no Warp Charge, tho the Unit is still considered a Psyker in all other regards.

 

Looking at how GW buffed them past this, and the aspects in which it's problematic, I think I would amend their Rules to something like keep the statlines like GW has them, but replace the text about them splitting with something like:

 

 

 

Each time a Wound Pool being allocated to a Unit of Horrors is emptied, or when the last Model in a Unit of Horrors is removed, replace each Pink Horror that was removed because of that Wound Pool with 2 Blue Horrors, and each Blue Horror that was removed because of that Wound Pool with a pair of Brimstone Horrors.

 

The new Models must be placed in Coherency with the existing Unit (if the Unit was just wiped out, place the first new Horror within 2" of where the last one removed was). If the Unit was not Locked in Combat, the new Models may not be placed within 1" of any Enemy Models. If the Unit was Locked in Combat, the new Models must be placed in Base Contact with an Enemy Model Locked in the same Combat if possible while maintaining Coherency. If that is not possible, they must be placed as close to an Enemy Model Locked in the same Combat as possible while maintaining Coherency.

 

For purposes of the Magic Made Manifest Rule, each Blue Horror counts as half a Pink Horror, and Brimstone Horrors do not count at all.

 

This Rule also replaces the Invulnerable Save that Horrors would normally gain from the Daemon Special Rule.

[Guest]

Remove their invulnerable save? Just how much do you intend to nerf my tzeentch for kill team. They already pay 9pts per model for something with no weapons, no armor and a guardsmen statline. With their only saving grace being re-rolls of 1 for their invulnerable save....

[WestRider]

Instead of an unreliable Save, you now have to kill each of them 4 times, guaranteed. It's a pretty big boost to actual durability.

 

Before, 9 Wounds from Bolter Fire on 9 Pink Horrors, you'd likely end up with 5 Horrors left. This way, you'd end up with 18 Blue Horrors instead. Which, admittedly, isn't as good as what you'd get from GW's new Horror Rules (5 Pink Horrors, 8 Blue Horrors in a separate Unit), but seriously, their way is game-breakingly good.

 

Also, these are my House Rules. No reason they'd do anything that would affect your Kill Team. Of the people who might actually end up using them, and might play a Tzeentch Daemon Kill Team, both of us have enough Screamers to just go that route instead ;)

[Guest]

Instead of an unreliable Save, you now have to kill each of them 4 times, guaranteed. It's a pretty big boost to actual durability.

 

Before, 9 Wounds from Bolter Fire on 9 Pink Horrors, you'd likely end up with 5 Horrors left. This way, you'd end up with 18 Blue Horrors instead. Which, admittedly, isn't as good as what you'd get from GW's new Horror Rules (5 Pink Horrors, 8 Blue Horrors in a separate Unit), but seriously, their way is game-breakingly good.

 

Also, these are my House Rules. No reason they'd do anything that would affect your Kill Team. Of the people who might actually end up using them, and might play a Tzeentch Daemon Kill Team, both of us have enough Screamers to just go that route instead ;)

Ah, just house rules. Regarding durability, the invulnerable save is much better because with daemonology, it's easy enough to gain a 4++ with re-rolling 1s on those horrors. With that CD artefact, we can boost this to a 2++ with re-rolling 1s. 

 

And, as mentioned in that other thread, I don't have any screamer models at all. I do have lots of flamers, but no screamers. 

[pretre]

It is the house rules thread...

[Guest]

It is the house rules thread...

Humor me, I'm tired. Yes, thread title should have been a give away...

[WestRider]

Ah, just house rules. Regarding durability, the invulnerable save is much better because with daemonology, it's easy enough to gain a 4++ with re-rolling 1s on those horrors. With that CD artefact, we can boost this to a 2++ with re-rolling 1s.

Splitting like this is still better than 4++ re-rolling 1s. And using the Grimoire on Horrors is kind of a waste. Much better for it to protect a Daemon Prince or FateWeaver or Screamers or any number of other things. 

And, as mentioned in that other thread, I don't have any screamer models at all. I do have lots of flamers, but no screamers.

Like I said, I was speaking of the people likely to use these House Rules, which is very much not a large group (i.e. me and the two other local Players I get together with regularly).

[Guest]

Splitting like this is still better than 4++ re-rolling 1s. And using the Grimoire on Horrors is kind of a waste. Much better for it to protect a Daemon Prince or FateWeaver or Screamers or any number of other things.

Usually, yes. Sometimes objective secured horrors are what you want, especially if you don't desire to land with your princes and lords of change. 

[AbusePuppy]

The GW draft FAQ's ruling on Tervigons strongly implies that other abilities that spawn models (not including conjuration psychic powers, which have their own rules) would also create models that are considered part of the "original" detachment and benefit from any of its command abilities, including Objective Secured.

[WestRider]

And even that isn't necessary in the case of this Rule, where the Unit itself remains the same.

 

I'd also note that my Rule gives even slightly better durability than a 3+ re-rolling 1s. Only a 3+ with full re-rolls or a 2+ re-rollable will actually preserve the Unit better. And that's assuming they're standing out in the open. This House Rule also lets them take better advantage of Cover than Daemons usually can.

[WestRider]

Psychic Discipline of Change, Warpflame Special Rule. Replace with : The attack has the Rending USR, and additionally gains Ignores Cover on any Rolls of 6 to-Wound or Penetrate. However, the targets may re-roll 1s on their Saving Throws.

 

Makes it so there's no ongoing effect to keep track of, and also changes it so that it's more often in favour of the Tzeentch Player, whereas the current Warpflame Rule is, at best*, a 50/50 chance of doing more damage instead of giving the target Unit a bonus.

 

*Discounting the handful of T1-2 Units. They're non-trivial, but in my experience, negligible for these purposes.

[WestRider]

I don't really see a reason to start a new thread just because it's a new edition. Anyhow:

Marked Chaos Lords replace the Lord of Chaos Ability with the following:

• No Mark: Keep Lord of Chaos
• Khorne: Lord of Battle: You may re-roll all failed Hit Rolls in the Fight Phase for Friendly <Khorne> <Legion> Units within 6" of this Model.
• Tzeentch: Strands of Fate: You may re-roll Saving Throws of 1 for Friendly <Tzeentch> <Legion> Units within 6" of this Model.
• Nurgle: Cloud of Flies: Roll a die each time a Model in a Friendly <Nurgle> <Legion> Infantry Unit within 6" of this Model suffers a Wound. On a 6+, the Model does not lose that Wound.
• Slaanesh: Blinding Speed: Friendly <Slaanesh> <Legion> Infantry, Bike, Helbrute, Daemon Engine, and Daemon Prince Models that start a Move of any kind (including normal Movement, Charge, Pile-in, or Consolidate) within 6" of this Model may move up to 1" farther than they would normally be able to. If the Unit is Advancing, it may move up to 2" farther instead.

Not sure how balanced these all are against each other and the basic Lord of Chaos Ability. Might be necessary to add Points Costs for different Marks. Just thought it would be fun to have a bit more distinguishing the different Marks.

Also, they forgot to actually do anything Rules-wise to cover the fluff that MaulerFiends can climb all over just about anything.

Siege Crawler: MaulerFiends are treated as Infantry for purposes of how they are allowed to move through Ruins. Note that this is only for movement purposes; they do not gain Cover in Ruins as Infantry do, but must still be 50% obscured as normal for Vehicles.