Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I think lr shield with 4++ which is pax'a mo would make for a decent shield, not too strong and would crumble to most list options but he could start in reserve roll them on for a good first showing. With sky hammer assault formation most everything is vulnerable now. DA-wise, that RW support squadron formation is a pretty solid anti-skyhammer option, especially with that accursed LS vengeance. Not only does it grant interceptor with that Plasma Large blast and a squadron of Speeders, but you'd also get a modified TAU supporting fire which triggers when the opponent declares a charge at an ally within 24" of the formation (no stipulations about the charged unit being able to fire overwatch). So, potentially, you could fire everything twice at the skyhammer assault formation (one interceptor at BS5 via strafing run and one overwatch at BS2 via Grim Resolve). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 DA-wise, that RW support squadron formation is a pretty solid anti-skyhammer option, especially with that accursed LS vengeance. Not only does it grant interceptor with that Plasma Large blast and a squadron of Speeders, but you'd also get a modified TAU supporting fire which triggers when the opponent declares a charge at an ally within 24" of the formation (no stipulations about the charged unit being able to fire overwatch). So, potentially, you could fire everything twice at the skyhammer assault formation (one interceptor at BS5 via strafing run and one overwatch at BS2 via Grim Resolve). And if you're taking it in the context of a Lion's Blade Strike Force, the Overwatch is going to be at full BS, too :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 And if you're taking it in the context of a Lion's Blade Strike Force, the Overwatch is going to be at full BS, too :D So, would that support squadron fire overwatch at BS4 or BS5 (strafing run)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's kind of a sketchy situation, not covered very clearly, but I'd say that we're already in "rules that specifically say they modify the BS for Snap Shots" territory, which would put "Full BS" at whatever it would come out to for a regular Shooting Attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 It's kind of a sketchy situation, not covered very clearly, but I'd say that we're already in "rules that specifically say they modify the BS for Snap Shots" territory, which would put "Full BS" at whatever it would come out to for a regular Shooting Attack. That's actually one of the worst bits, GW's rules don't say they modify "snap" shots, but that they modify "Overwatch" shots. So it becomes even more sketchy when a rule allows firing overwatch at full BS....as full BS is *clearly* not a snap shot. I do think many of the overwatch rules don't work if it isn't a snap shot, but this one is really poorly worded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The section on modifiers to Snap Shots does have a little disclaimer that they might also say things like only for Overwatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt_smokey_bacon Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Just got out to Card Kingdom today and picked up the book. (painting/modeling related) Initial impressions: Pleasantly surprised to find out that Squadrons of attack bikes are back in the dex, but that just makes modeling the other 9 I have a priority, and a huge PITA as they are HEAVily converted, and quite fiddly. Glad to see that my heavily converted command squad and company veterans squads are back to being interchangeable. Under the old dex I had to lump two of my favorite minis into the command squad, as they were the only power armored marines that could take TH/SS. (I know this pleases Fluger, as it means I have 2 squads I can play Shaft in) My wallet is going to hurt when I end up buying multiple devastator squads for the Grav weapons for my Devastators. I wish they'd bring back giving every servitor a plasma cannon, my matchstick men are bummed they have to fight in 2 groups. I also have to paint another techmarine, and more servo arm servitors. I have a LOT of Deathwing to paint. something like 11 knights, 15 terminators, 6 dreadnoughts, and at least 1 Landraider. Likewise for the Ravenwing. Luckily, if I minmax my marine squads, I can run a battle company and get free transports. But again, my wallet will hurt picking up the extra drop pods and a few rhinos. Everytime they give me a new awesome book, my goal of painting the collection gets further away. These recent moves don't make it any easier, either. All in all, though, I'm excited to get back to the work of painting, and the fun of pulling my dead guys off the table. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Don't forget to make a command Squad for the demi company. Take sacred standard, all Grav guns for relentless shooting fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Don't forget to make a command Squad for the demi company. Take sacred standard, all Grav guns for relentless shooting fun! I'm making one. Spendy as heck. Not sure it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 There I'd a debate about that. One hand you can drop pod it and pretty much blow up whatever but then you run the risk of your spend guys getting blown up from shooting. I've heard of people taking storm shields on all of them too. I was planning to give them a razor and let them push with the other razor squads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 There I'd a debate about that. One hand you can drop pod it and pretty much blow up whatever but then you run the risk of your spend guys getting blown up from shooting. I've heard of people taking storm shields on all of them too. I was planning to give them a razor and let them push with the other razor squads It's 60pts in grav at the 4-man level, and 75pts with 5-man. It's then another 35pts for the standard, 35pts for the pod/rhino, and 90pts for the base unit. So I'm looking at a unit that is 220-235pts. I could add the storm shields, but that's another 50pts. The question is, will my opponent provide me with a target worth shooting with 220pts+ of one small unit? And more so, the grav weapons don't function against buildings, and are mediocre against enemies with weak armor saves or an AV value. So the opponent needs to provide a target that isn't a building, vehicle, or weak armor model, but is still worth 200-300pts, and that's just to break even. I think there will certainly be some games were it is amazing, but I think many games will also have it be like those dedicated AA units when the opponent lacks skimmers, FMCs and fliers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 In a lion's blade the pod/razor would be free. Really thou it costs as much as a dwt squad and they only get storm bolters for shooting. But ya it's a mixed thing. I'm going to slap one in my lion's blade. Now...how to fit a dark talon in my DWSF. Or a beefy RWSS...not sure yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 In a lion's blade the pod/razor would be free. Really thou it costs as much as a dwt squad and they only get storm bolters for shooting. But ya it's a mixed thing. I'm going to slap one in my lion's blade. Now...how to fit a dark talon in my DWSF. Or a beefy RWSS...not sure yet. No, in a lion's blade the pod/razor is only free with a double demi-company. You can field the lion's blade without the double demi-company. If going double demi-company, the command squad is more iffy, as you've got a bunch of units that need fleshing out and you've decided to put 100pts of gear into a single 5-man squad. So minimum lion's blade with double demi-company and scout auxillery (required 1 aux) is 1,035pts. So command squad with "free" razor/pod is another 220-280pts. That's 1,255-1,305pts. Only 500pts or so left to work with at the 1850pt level. I guess if the plan is to just add special/heavy weapons the the existing options and field purely mech/pod green wing, it would work, but you don't have room for any fun toys. EDIT: I'm mostly building mine for apocalypse and bigger games than 1850pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ahh I build for 2000pts. I have a list with 2 demi and a support squadron. Lots of guns. A 2k double demi doesn't have a lot of room anyway for more then say, a rwss, or rwas, or hammer of caliban. All good support for greenwing. All the other fun formations are spendy anyway... A double demi supports my play style...tons of marines with support. But I also love DW. Too bad I can't fit both into a 2k lion's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ahh I build for 2000pts. I have a list with 2 demi and a support squadron. Lots of guns. A 2k double demi doesn't have a lot of room anyway for more then say, a rwss, or rwas, or hammer of caliban. All good support for greenwing. All the other fun formations are spendy anyway... A double demi supports my play style...tons of marines with support. But I also love DW. Too bad I can't fit both into a 2k lion's I think you could get it to work at 2k. Still, you'd need to go light on additions if you intend to properly equip your marines and vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya I've been trying to fit a redemption force into a lions. I could just use one demi and fill it out. I was also considering two lists depending on what I want to do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya I've been trying to fit a redemption force into a lions. I could just use one demi and fill it out. I was also considering two lists depending on what I want to do... Yeah, I think 1 demi-company is good enough for most things. On a side note, the lion's blade full BS overwatch is a mixed blessing, as it fires at "full bs" meaning that if you have a fixed BS applied to your unit, they may end up firing overwatch at a lower value than their default statline suggests. Just like power of the machine spirit while the vehicle is subject to snaps, it's full BS is 1.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya true. From what I've been hearing thou it's still nuts. 50+ bodies at full BS makes assaulters think twice when looking to charge. It's almost a free shooting round. Termies overwatch at full BS sounds great too. Would you fill out all the squads for a single demi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya true. From what I've been hearing thou it's still nuts. 50+ bodies at full BS makes assaulters think twice when looking to charge. It's almost a free shooting round. Termies overwatch at full BS sounds great too. Would you fill out all the squads for a single demi? Maybe, it would depend on what I needed them to do. Probably some would be fleshed out. I think devastator squads at 10-man level have good value via the combat squad rule and long range weapons. 2 heavy weapons at BS4 is often enough for impairing light tanks. 2 heavy weapons also means they can fire both heavy weapons out of the rhino fire points, which can have merit against opponents with lacking AT options, or with D weapons (because they destroy the transport and can't target the unit with the same unit). Objective secured assault squads also have some neat applications, especially with the modified assault squad. That said, I think the tactical squads are the tax for the demi-company. I'd keep them 5-man and either go with special weapon+combi of the same type, or 1 heavy weapon. Keep them cheap and disposable. Other main drawback with the double demi lion's blade is the unavoidable high Kill Point army. Free transports means doubling your already high KP count, with light vehicles. 20+ KP, not even including the mandatory aux sub-detachment. Though for my purposes, I'm probably going to run a CAD, so I can get objective secured scout marines and full codex access. BS & WS 4 scouts are awesome. We can also get transports for the scouts more easily, now that they are non-dedicated FA slots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 I was actually thinking a small CAD with the DWSF so I can get a dark talon in. Rift Cannon and stasis bomb are sweet now and would help out dw a lot. Other then that ima stick to formations and such for the cool sr's like run and shoot from deep strike and 12" deep strike bubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalmer Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Demi w/Company Master... plop on a jump pack and put him w/the assaulters 3x5 Tacs in Drop Pods 1x5 Assault squad 1x5 Dev squad in Rhino Demi w/Chaplain... plop on a jump pack and put him w/the assaulters 3x5 Tacs in Drop Pods 1x5 Assault squad 1x5 Dev squad in Rhino Interrogator-Chaplain on a bike with Mace of Redemption and Auspex, stick him with the BKs 1x3 Black Knights, grenade launcher on one Dark Talon Dark Shroud 4 Land Speeders w/Heavy Bolters Have the Shroud do its thing for basically everything that isn't a Tac or Dev as it all plows forward. Get to grips w/stuff as soon as possible. Wreck face with the IC + BK group, pre-soften their biggest target w/the stasis bomb. If my back line needs support have the jumpers bounce around and get stuck in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Demi w/Company Master... plop on a jump pack and put him w/the assaulters 3x5 Tacs in Drop Pods 1x5 Assault squad 1x5 Dev squad in Rhino Demi w/Chaplain... plop on a jump pack and put him w/the assaulters 3x5 Tacs in Drop Pods 1x5 Assault squad 1x5 Dev squad in Rhino Interrogator-Chaplain on a bike with Mace of Redemption and Auspex, stick him with the BKs 1x3 Black Knights, grenade launcher on one Dark Talon Dark Shroud 4 Land Speeders w/Heavy Bolters Have the Shroud do its thing for basically everything that isn't a Tac or Dev as it all plows forward. Get to grips w/stuff as soon as possible. Wreck face with the IC + BK group, pre-soften their biggest target w/the stasis bomb. If my back line needs support have the jumpers bounce around and get stuck in. Unbound? How are you getting the single Dark Talon? Also, why the interrogator chappy? EDIT: Perhaps you are using the RWSF, but that interrogator chappy doesn't have the RW rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya if that is the RWSF that would work as soon as they FAQ that dumbass lack of Ravenwing sr on the other ICs. Also what's your load out for the tacs/devs? I'm guessing that is probably 2k also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Also what's your load out for the tacs/devs? I'm guessing that is probably 2k also? Could be wrong, but it looks like his are just bolters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2015 Report Share Posted July 19, 2015 Ya if that is the RWSF that would work as soon as they FAQ that dumbass lack of Ravenwing sr on the other ICs. Really not sure they will. For starts, GW really hasn't been doing much for FAQs at all. Second bit is that it isn't really fluffy to allow other ICs to lead the ravenwing. The raven wing is the second company, and the company master is sammy, so having the company master IC is really a no-go. The librarians aren't technically part of company, so them being without the raven wing rule is also fluffy. RW does have chappies, so those are really the only ones that would be legal selections from a strictly cannon standpoint. I am thinking it may be that GW/FW is intending to release some additional HQ options for the RW at a later date, but at present their are two options for the required HQ slot (sableclaw or sammy), so it's not like you are unable to take the formation as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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