AoS list building

[AgentP]

If you're not moving straight at something, you're not moving towards it.  You're moving towards somewhere else with a future intent to alter course.  But even if arcing is allowed, there may be a rare circumstance where your 3" can arc you around intervening models, but that's going to be hard in a scrum.  The important thing is that you can't move towards the almost closest, yet open model.

[Romes]

I think you're reading into it to much. I have to move toward model A (not model B).

 

If, with every millimeter point in my movement, say along a diagonal, I move closer to model a, I'm still moving toward it. Just not directly. That could however leave me within .5 inches of model B.

 

But I don't think it means that either. 

 

I think it means move toward the model, and is totally non-specific about going around stuff, models or terrain, in the action of accomplishing that instruction.

[AgentP]

      Y            Z

BBBBBB 

      A

 

So in my above diagram, Model A has to make his 3" pile in towards Y, the closest enemy.  But a bunch of A's buddies (B) are in the way.  So are you proposing that A could move on the diagonal, knowing he will never get within 1" of Y, but may end up within 1" of Z?

 

Because I don't think that's what the rule allows.  I think the rule allows you to pile in 3" towards the closest model.  And if that 3" travel gets you within shot of that model, great, but you don't get to travel in the general 180 degree arc containing that that model, you have to move towards it.

 

Now, I'm not claiming I'm right.  The game is just out and we're all working through it.  But that's how I'm reading it.

[Romes]

I think that, because it is not defined, A has to move toward Y  as much as he can.

 

That means when piling in, he should move 3" to whatever point he can that is as close as possible to Y.

 

In your scenario he would get to choose between to the left and to the right, as those routes are equidistant. If one B model was not in that line, on either side, he would be compelled to use that route. If the left B was not there, he's be sitting waiting a turn, to attack Y next pile in. If the right B was not there he might end up close to Z, possibly get to attack Z, and next turn have to pile toward z instead.

 

Would of course love a FAQ with some diagrams =P

[Threejacks]

Pile in is certainly one of the things they need to clarify.I have ran a 40 strong Horde of Moonclan with spears and have been doing it as Romes is describing and yes,what happens is you work around from the back and then next round you actually have a new "closest model" that dictates your movement choices.

 

On the other side I can see where AgentP is coming from,then of course initial charge positioning with horde units is crucial as you may end up blocking a lot of possible attacks otherwise.

 

Really though, the "Scrum" effect so many are bashing about this game has many nuances to it.How you remove your casualties,how or if you should retreat a unit or even add more units to the mosh and from what angle and of course how you divide up attacks all play a huge role in how it will turn out.This all assuming numbers continue to seem favorable and balanced as the rounds go on.

 

And actually the game doesn't need to be a Mosh pit at all,with mobility being pretty much normalized across the board,kiting of enemy units is a very viable tactic especially if you have the numbers in a unit to take a few casualties and continue to fall back and kite.

 

Also keep in mind that ANY model can be your general.For instance with my Moonclan blob I make the champ my Gen,then just keep them inspired all the time:).Then in order to stop that they need to snipe him out of there and that's not very easy to do anymore without magic.

[Threejacks]

Keep in mind that you dont have "base to base" anymore.

 

A successful charge means you were 1/2" away from the nearest model.

 

Also keep in mind you have a 3" consolidation move but your attacks have a range of anywhere from 1/2" inch to 4" dependent upon the model.  So you can pile in but if you are out of range that sucks for you when your opponent then consolidates and begins to remove models with his entire unit of infantry with a 2" reach or ... you charged and he has 2 units within 3" now that also activate after you have gone.

Yup,I call it "Face to Face" now:)

[Brother Glacius]

Okay, so pretty much locked down that multi-wound units have a clear advantage in the attrition war. Also, single wound models with poor saves are pretty much right out. The best use of them would be if they are missile troops. Other than that, they are one-hit wonders unless they can wipe out their target in one round. Low bravery on characters pretty much means nothing as they don't take battleshock tests.

 

Are there rules for characters joining a unit, or sharing their bravery stat? Or is that limited to command abilities only?

[Sylvos]

Characters can not join units. Making them very good targets!

[AgentP]

There is still definitely a place for chaff.  In fact, given that they project a 6" diameter NO GO zone, I'd say that chaff units are even more powerful than before.  

[Don't Panic]

Agreed about chaff. Actually chaff use is one of the most interesting aspects of aos..

[Brother Glacius]

Can you give an example of how they are used?

[rudra34]

A powerful enemy unit is coming at your lines.  You use small, disposable units to block it for your opponents turn.  If they charge into it, they will likely wipe that unit out in combat.  This leaves them open for you to charge them on your turn and choose to get your attacks in before they can attack back.   If you hit them hard enough, you will hopefully be able to cripple them and then destroy them in further rounds.   All for the sacrifice of a smaller, otherwise useless unit.

[valourunbound]

Unless the enemy goes twice in a row. It's hard to plan ahead when you don't even know whose [big bad swear word]ing turn is next.

[rudra34]

Unless the enemy goes twice in a row. It's hard to plan ahead when you don't even know whose [big bad swear word]ing turn is next.

This is true.  The random turn thing really adds a wtf feeling to this game.

[AgentP]

Yep, nothing is guaranteed, which is great.

 

So you take a five man squad and you string them 1" apart on a flank nearly an enemy trying to advance, say 4-5" away.  The enemy cannot come within 3" creating a either a significant detour to go around the disposable unit (forcing a run move so it can't shoot or charge), or it alternatively charges the unit, but even then you've cut its base movement down to an inch, because it can't come within 3" except via charge roll.  So you've denied it a movement phase.  Even if it kills the unit, there is no overrun, so it stays where it is.

 

But yes, the enemy could go twice, which is a real risk.  But I like that personally.  The movement cockblocking of 8th was too predictable.  I like that it isn't guaranteed.  Chaff is also very vulnerable to the very potent shooting phase.  

[KlawKnee]

Now that verminlord has gone up in scale, think the old metal one would be good daemon prince,

[pretre]

Online points system:

 

https://sites.google.com/site/ageofsigmarsdk/

[AgentP]

A solution in search of a problem.  Game plays great as is, doesn't need a points system

[Fixxer]

@ AgentP, So you believe that the sudden death option is enough to balance the game? 

 

Or do you like the other, "unofficial", comp that broke the force into 5 scrolls for 25 wounds with limits on monsters, heros, and wms? 

 

I have played 2 games so far and need like 50 more to really make up my mind about army points and balance, I do really like the game though. 

[Brother Glacius]

@AgentP - a solution you should really be trying to embrace instead of dismissing. The simple fact is, without a point system, AoS will be nothing more than a casual game. If you haven't noticed yet, Ordo doesn't have game nights or events for casual games. A good point system will do wonders for AoS being played and embraced by the WFB community. So don't knock people trying to make the game more appealing.

[AgentP]

@ AgentP, So you believe that the sudden death option is enough to balance the game? 

 

Or do you like the other, "unofficial", comp that broke the force into 5 scrolls for 25 wounds with limits on monsters, heros, and wms? 

 

I have played 2 games so far and need like 50 more to really make up my mind about army points and balance, I do really like the game though. 

 

 

In every game I've played thus far, the rules worked out of the box.  Now I grant you, I have not played against dicks.  I've played against friends, and reasonable people whose company I enjoy.  I've also played scenarios, not "line up across and fight."  Scenarios help the game a lot.

[valourunbound]

Not 100% sure what thread to put this in (it was this or rumors...) but the new App is pretty spiffy. Came out for Android today, and it is loads better than swiping through a pdf.

[Threejacks]

Azyr Comp v1.32 is up now

 

Further division of point values,now they are 1-10

 

 

 

http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/AzyrComp.pdf

[KlawKnee]

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Creatures-of-the-Chaos-Wastes

 

Creatures of the Chaos Wastes contains 1 Warriors of Chaos Slaughterbrute/Mutalith Vortex Beast(12); 2 boxes of Warriors of Chaos Dragon Ogres(30); 1 box of Chaos Spawn(5); and 1 Warhammer Giant(12).

 

 

59 wounds..

[Threejacks]

The Azyr comp players are starting an escalation league this fall and posted their rules and backround for it.Some pretty good ideas in there:)

 

 

http://www.louisvillewargaming.com/Files/BurningPeninsula.pdf