Munkie

I'm sure I could swing either of those days, knowing them this far in advance.

I know playing against 4th tyranids scared the bajeezus out of me but it was usually a blast. I miss that. That and nid players enjoying playing with bugs. I really miss that.

Yeah I thought the Scar Vet was the bee's knees! I just worry that he's too vulnerable to shooting on a Cold One, and too vulnerable to CC if on foot.

I would still attend without allies, but I'd be unhappy about it. It makes DE virtually unplayable, which I'm against as they are my favorites.

Ballin!

Also, Comics Place (now in Eagles' old location) had 2 starters and a couple other ships last I was there. Obviously, I recommend getting anything you can from Nathaniel for loyalty's sake, but it's only fair you know your options.

Working this day unfortunately.

I'm certainly interested but scheduling may be tough. I tend to work until 7 or so at night which I know is fairly late for those with families. I've got weekends off but people with families tend not too...

Yeah I could do with 100 of the ones Joey suggested too. Also 100 of these: http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=ZD4 So my total would be $21+tax/shipping/convenience fee. Thanks for setting this up!

Yeah I'll volunteer again but I don't want to deter anyone else from doing so as well. It's not my position to keep, it's the club's to temporarily lend.

I'm definitely down for some more X-Wing, it's a pretty popular game in most places, and there's no reason it shouldn't be in Bham. That said, I'd be more interested in a tournament than an escalation league. The game is so easy to learn that an escalation league isn't really necessary for the learning curve.

Simple, by cheating! That's what I get for posting lists late at night. There's no scroll on the Slann, it's a Channeling Staff (points are right, gear is wrong). Edited above Thanks for the clarification on the breaking point thing. I figured that was the case as it came from our fantasy guru in the area and it seemed like a good alteration. If for no other reason that, un-modified, you can stop part way through the battle which is lame. On the one hand, all my eggs are in one basket, but on the other, I pretty much can't lose unless that unit gets taken out. But I will usually lose without that unit anyway, I figure so I'm no worse off in that mission than any other. Hordes seem unwieldy only in the sense that they'd get bottled up too easily. The last to games had choke points that 2 hordes could never fit through. Hordes seem good and all, but not at the cost of arriving piecemeal into the killing fields. At any rate, I don't have the models, nor the $$ to invest too much in fantasy right now. Trying to work with what I got which is 32 Saurus and 30ish TG. Hordes aren't on the menu in the near future but I would like to give them a shot at some point, even if just to cross it off my 8th ed bucket list. The rest of your post somewhat confuses me. I hope I haven't given you the impression that I'm brushing off your suggestions. I assure you I am listening (or reading) closely, but I think you and I have a different approach to the game, or at least the army. That said, I do appreciate contrary points of view, as it may open my eyes to something my fantasy ignorance has blinded me to. Then again, maybe I'm misinterpreting your intentions when you say "listen very close" but it comes across as fairly condescending... On the cost of gear comment, are your referring to all gear for all characters (magical and mundane) or just the magical gear on the Scar Vet? You mention a 2+ save on foot, but then appear to suggest not taking magic items. I can't do both. I can get a 2+ save with either a helmet+shield, Enchanted Shield, or that horribly overpriced 2+ magical armor, but either way I'd need magical gear. And barring the horribly overpriced 2+ armor, I couldn't also take a great weapon. Honestly, I'd probably stick with the Armor of Destiny and great weapon if on foot. 3+/4++ sounds better than 2+ armor. I might have to go that route though, because he just seems like cannon bait on a Cold One. It would free up 20ish points as well...enough for, say, upgrading one unit of terradons to ripperdactyls? I've been meaning to try them out... Thoughts?

Slann have an exception to usual rule of magic banner or magic items. They have exceptions to most rules it seems :P I could put the Scar-Vet on foot, but he'd be less of a powerhouse. I like the 1+/4++ and that just wouldn't be possible on foot. I think the best I could do with a great weapon is 3+ and that's pretty damn fragile in my mind. Still, I'll look into some different builds. Never tried a horde before but they seem kind of unwieldy. That's a lot of space to take up...

First of all, thanks for the link! I read it a few days ago but never got around to replying until now. @HeroZero, sorry man, that approach to the book just ain't me. I'm sure it's all very sound advice, but if I can't play with magic frogs and dinosaur toys, what the hell am I even doing with life?! That said, you did get me thinking on your point about monstrous cav, as I realized I lack for answers there. But I'll get to that in a second, here's the list: Lords: 525/625 525: Slann Mage-Priest w/ Soul of Stone, Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery; Channeling Staff; BSB, Razor Standard Heroes: 242/625 152: Scar Vet w/ Halberd; Armor of Destiny; Cold One 90: Skink Priest w/ Dispel Scroll Core: 635/625 415: 35 Saurus w/ Spears, full command 50: 10 Skinks 50: 10 Skinks 50: 10 Skinks 70: 10 Skink Skirmishers w/ javelins & shields Special: 590/1250 310: 20 Temple Guard w/ Full command 140: 4 Terradons 140: 4 Terradons Rare: 500/625 250: Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened horns 250: Ancient Stegadon w/ Sharpened horns Total: 2500 I got to use this list tonight against Orcs and Goblins in the Blood and Glory mission. We used a modified version where you get a bonus 500 VPs if you get them to the breaking point, rather than it being an auto-win. I guess that's a common alteration? I like it better anyway. Here's my take aways from it: Terrain/Deployment: Less terrain than last game and I didn't just arbitrarily place things down like an idiot, I used pieces to anchor my flanks, etc. Big improvement there. Also, having the more consolidated list really helped with that battle line. My frontage was too big in that first battle and I just couldn't maneuver. My deployment was pretty standard. I had the 3 skinks in the front, blocks behind, with steggies on either side of the blocks. Terradons and skirmishers were on the flanks. Slann/Temple Guard So I went with what I call the "Channel Surfer" build for my Slann. 3 Channel Dice that succeed on a 5+ not too shabby, right? Well I didn't roll too well with it. I think I picked up two extra channel dice all game. Still interested to see how it plays out, so I'll probably run it again next week against DE. Regardless, the magic was much better this game. I killed 12 Savage Orc Biguns with 5++ talismanic tatoos with Fiery Convocation and swapped Soul Quench for Fireball for troll hunting (which I never ended up needing to use). Fun Stuff. The TG didn't get to do much but be a bunker. Their combat ability didn't prove to be necessary...but we'll get to that. The Razor Standard wasn't going to matter much against O&G but I wanted them to sink their teeth into something green and thrash it about. The Razor Standard, btw was my inclusion to help deal with monstrous cav. Doesn't multi-wound but more armor punching is always good. My volume of attacks should handle hordes. Priest/Skink Skirmishers: I liked this little unit! First of all, it solved the issue I had previously of where to put my priest. He doesn't fit with Saurus and he shouldn't be in a chaff unit. They stuck in a pond in my deployment zone (march distance from some woods) and had a good time. They finished off a wolf chariot and only lost 1 model all game! The skink priest even took an 'Ead Butt to the face but only took one wound :P Though I did realize it's risky having my dispel scroll on such a fragile dude. Character snipe spells can really open me up for the 6-dicers. If the Channel Surfer doesn't work out, I could just toss the scroll to my frog instead. Skinks: Used them a bit better this game, but my opponent also stopped them from being too much of a hassle pretty quickly. He blocked 2 units of skinks from moving more than an inch on turn 1, and then made 2 long charges on those units and took them out. The other blocked a charge by 6 trolls and drew out the fanatics. Scar-Vet/Saurus: In case you were wondering, 40 Night goblins with a baby shaman can't take on a block of 35 Saurus with a badass character. Nets be damned! The gobbos got a long charge off on a unit of skinks (needed an 11) and overran into the Saurus. He hoped to hold me in place for a turn or two, but the Saurus mulched 'em up pretty quick and they ran for it. The game ended with them rallied but about to take a follow up charge. The Scar Vet nobly threw himself on a mangler squig on the last turn but took no wounds due my opponent's poor rolling and my 4++. My only concern is where do I put this guy? Since he's on a Cold One, he doesn't get LOS! against anything. It seems like cannons and bolt throwers can pick him off super easily...thoughts? Terradons: Man did I blow it with these guys this game! One unit Vanguarded to a midfield forest and got nailed by a lucky first turn charge from a wolf chariot. They took 2 wounds off it but he had 5 war machines on the back line and they needed my attention. My plan was to dare the chariot to charge into woods, and drop rocks on it when it failed it's charge. It didn't work out that way though, and I've got nobody to blame but myself. The other unit had a similar plan against the boar chariot on the opposite flank, but instead, my poor angling on one of my skink units lead to a pursuit into this unit. They got charged by the boar chariot on the following turn and were, thusly, pulversized. Although it worked out to my benefit because of my... STEGGADONS!: These guys were hands down MVPs of the game! So the unit of Orcs with the Warboss that pursued into my terradons, were stuck in place for a flank charge from Steggie. And he mashed them up good. I think there were 4 and the Warboss left at the end of the game. The warboss only had 4 str 5 attacks so he was only doing about a wound per turn and I was gonna start directing attacks at him since I ground down the steadfast. He also pulped the unit of wolf riders that blocked my skinks from advancing. Didn't have to move and he was in short range so I gave the wolves the ol' double barruh'. Why does nobody talk about those blowguns?! Anyway, the other Steggadon was even more badass! He started off by failing a charges against a goblin character on a wolf (yeah, you better run!), but got to charge some trolls after that. A chance to redeem himself for the insanely courageous trolls of last week (grrr....) He stampeded through them and pursued into the savage orc big 'uns with the BSB and lvl 4 Shaman. Then he took 2 mangler squigs from the side and took only 2 wounds! His BSB made way to the stegadon, hoping to drag it down, but it hit and wounded with all 3 attacks and he was stomped into the dust. Then the unit broke and were ran down. We ended the game there, as he had only his warboss, 4 orcs, 3 fleeing trolls (about to get charged by the same steggadon), 1 mangler squig, and a fanatic still whizzing about. There were a few war machines in the back too, but his rock lobba and one of his doom divers blew up. I had a lot of fun this game, and I felt both my list, and my usage of it, had improved. I definitely had a pretty lucky game and my opponent was really hot or cold. His charges were awesome but anything that did a variable number of hits or wounds generally rolled really low. But luck aside, I felt like I had a little bit more control over the battle than the last game. Thanks for reading, and feel free to rip on my list above if'n you like!

No, they aren't the same, but it's hard to know who (or what area) is like-minded if you don't know them already. Your opponent might ask for soft, but not realize that your soft is still pretty damn mean. That's always happened but now there is a bigger disparity than ever between the average list and the truly powerful one. Likewise, asking your opponent to make a less optimal move because you're interest is waning is kind of a delicate conversation to have with a stranger--even for people more socially adept than we. That aside, I think it's frustrating that this MUST be a part of the pre-game conversation. GW has let the rules get so out of hand that people have to figure out exactly how many punches they're gonna pull or risk someone leaving the game wondering why they bother to play. That indicates to me that they need to reign it in a bit.

Give a mouse a cookie....

I'm feeling pretty disenchanted with 40k right now too. I think a huge part of it is the variables as people mentioned above. It simply isn't possible to fit in enough answers to all of the threats out there, which means something out there is going to stomp you flat, and there's often little you can do about it. And this is a dangerous problem to have for 3 reasons: 1. Competitive gamers can't build TAC lists. It can be frustrating to be knocked out because you faced the wrong list. Match-up luck can be just as important as in-game luck. 2. Non-competitive gamers have a hard time having those close games that are so fun. They do happen in 6th, and they're a blast, but they just aren't that common. It's hard to keep a smile on your face when you're being forced to eat gravel. 3. Now, more than ever, competitive and non-competitive gamers have a hard time mixing. If you're competitive and playing with non-competitive folk, nobody has fun and you look like an ass. If you're non-competitive and figure you'll try out a tourney, you're reminded really quickly why you shouldn't play at that level. So yeah, playing with ONLY like-minded individuals is the best answer, and to an extent, always has been. But that's still a [big bad swear word]ty answer, because it doesn't encourage anyone to meet anyone new. Play with only who you know, and plays like you.

While it seems odd given the lance rule, I can tell you from plenty of past experience is that lances are actually really bad at killing vehicles. Lances are still good for zapping T6 MCs and T4 multi-wound stuff (like broadsides), but as a solution to vehicles they are woefully underwhelming. I'd go with double star or scatter/star too.

I'm glad you knew what I meant. As soon as I typed "lifting exo-suit" I couldn't unconjure an image of robo-spanks....

More of those lifting exo-suits!

Wow. I'm glad petty emotions like spite are factors in the final draft of the codex. God, GW is an awful awful company these days.

Sounds boring

I set up a Fanstasy game with Andy. I'm just never gonna play that game, am I?

Vukan isn't dead, he's missing like others. In fact, considering the recent revelation of him being unkillable, I think if ANY of the missing ones are alive, it's him. Also, I don't think Corax had chameleon skin, it was more like he could will people into not being aware of him. Chameleon skin wouldn't do much when he's wearing his armor. Someone might think he's Ferrus Manus for a second, but that wouldn't buy him much time...

I look the success of all the games put forth on Kickstarter, and have a hard time agreeing with any notion of formal training required. Anyone and everyone is "qualified" to write rules. Whether or not they are good at it, is another matter all together.