PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 The reduced BS3 on the HIve Guard almost makes it necessary to have 3 in a unit. Against AV12, your unit of hive guard will statistically take away one hull point... is it worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 And 3 guard helps this how? 2 units of 2 generates 33% more shots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Wow sporemines and biovores need an faq bad. You can't assault in assult phase on turn arrival... I can only imagin this is the results, raw would probably support. Are they placed as unit? Or separate? If unit, are all shots from a brood of biovores one large unit?, therefore facing issues with coherency. Can you run spore mines first turn in? It seems you would place first shot then use that for follow up shots, only placing spore mines after all shots resolved any other method would suck. If could first turn assault you would almost always get back in, you can scatter max 9" if in los and place models so 8" away if you drol 2 more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 The way I read it, if the first shot misses, you skip the rest of the attack resolution, and jump straight to where you get d3 Spore Mines regardless of how many Biovores were firing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't think full broods of Devilgaunts is the way to go- you're allowed to mix weapons in a squad now, so taking 15-20 Termagants and then filling out the rest with Devilgaunts behind them is a good way to have enough bodies to soak casualties, but still have a lot of firepower once you get in range. Exocrines are pretty excellent, yeah. I need to get mine built so I can see if it's possible for them to have cover behind an Aegis Line, but my intuition is that they won't be able to, so you'll need something else. The models you listed, assuming no other upgrades, are about 2100pts give or take. however, as Mawlocs and Exocrines are both HS units, it's not a legal list. You're really short on Synapse, having only the Tyrant and Shrikes, neither of which is very durable- I would at the very least make it a Flyrant or give it some Tyrant Guard. to make sure it stays alive. Also, Lictors to guide in the Mawlocs could be very helpful- Infiltrate in, move + run forward (or assault if you're going second and the distance isn't too bad) and you're actually pretty close to the enemy on T2 when the Mawloc arrives. If you hit the dirt, you probably end up with a 2+ cover save and HnR can scoot you all over the field if you're lucky. Again, no codex but the site says exocrine is an elite... not a heavy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 OK, after looking at the Nids in person and really delving into the dex, this is where I would go with 2k for Nids Tervigon: 195 Tervigon HQ?!?!?! Am I crazy?! Thing is, Synapse is huge, and even though I don't get him scoring, he creates more scoring units and he makes for a nice synapse bubble in the middle. He's about the most rugged Synapse for the points, and I'm not going to feel too bad about hiding him. 20 Hormagants: 100 20 Hormagants: 100 20 Hormagants: 100 20 Hormagants: 100 80 fleet guys moving at the enemy, they aren't really that deadly to most things, but they can't be ignored completely. 3 Tyranid Warriors: 90 3 Tyranid Warriors: 90 Cheap Synapse that can either be a deck chair or move up with the horde. I'm not counting on them to do anything but be Synapse. 2 Venomthropes: 90 2 Venomthropes: 90 2 Venomthropes: 90 2 stay near the Tervigon, the other two split off to give off shrouding to as much as possible, ideally the Carnifexes. Crone: 155 Crone: 155 S8 vector strikes? Yes, thanks, I'll take that. 3 Biovores: 120 Great for doing damage on the enemy. Ideally I'm creating board pressure that will make them clump up, which makes them even better. These guys are a steal. 2 Carnifexes: 270 Adrenal Glands 2 Carnifexes: 270 Adrenal Glands Highly threatening to basically everything in the game, virtually the lynchpin of the whole army concept. 1995 So, deeper thoughts on this. The target saturation is REALLY high. All that shrouding is pretty strong considering even armies that ignore cover left and right are going to have a hard time picking out what to deal with first. To deal with Nids, you have to bring down synapse. This list only has 3 synapse units, two of which should be trying to stay out of LOS, and SHOULD be shrouded and in cover. So, if you start working on them first, you have to get through the cover and be able to see them. So maybe go after the venomthropes first. Makes sense, they are only 6 T4 wounds, with, ideally 3+ cover and only 5+ armor. That's not a lot, but it SHOULD take 10-11 serpent shield HITS to take out the unit. That's respectable, meaning, on average, it should take 2-3 wave serpents (since their other stuff is shooting too) to drop two. Obviously, there are certain things that will just straight up kill them, like a riptide ignoring cover, but either that riptide has the commander buddy and they just used all those points to kill 90 pts of Nids, or else they used up marker lights on them. Either way, you're spreading out the targets. So, the other target is the Carnifexes. Basically, they SHOULD be in melee by no later than turn 3 barring some unforseen circumstances and assuming they are still alive (thank you fleet!). Once there, they should tear up almost anything in the game in melee. So, if they focus on synapse, those synapse creatures are pretty tough until the venomthropes are dead, and I might be hiding them anyway. If the focus on the venomthropes for the first turn, that's ok because I don't lose anything ultra deadly, and it should take significant firepower to even accomplish that. As long as I can have enough danger presenting itself on turn two from fleeting Carnifexes, vector-striking Crones, and hordes of gaunts, I think I can safely get into melee and start consuming biomass. I don't think this is the best list ever, nor do I think something better won't present itself, but this is one avenue I see as really good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Again, no codex but the site says exocrine is an elite... not a heavy Site is incorrect. Exocrine is a heavy (I do have a codex). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Kay so amend that to one Mawloc. But that fixes the points as well. So i spose thats alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 How 'bout stealer shock? Deathleaper: 130 13 Genestealers: 182 13 Genestealers: 182 13 Genestealers: 182 13 Genestealers: 182 13 Genestealers: 182 3 Lictors: 150 3 Lictors: 150 3 Lictors: 150 Trygon Prime: 230 Mawloc: 140 Mawloc: 140 2000 Deploy nothing! Infiltrate with Deathleaper, the Lictors, and the 65 stealers. Prime and Mawloc show up later. Try and hide and wait for turn two assaults! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The way I read it, if the first shot misses, you skip the rest of the attack resolution, and jump straight to where you get d3 Spore Mines regardless of how many Biovores were firing. I'm sure you can agree, I hope you are wrong. Chances slim but couldn't your second attack if it scattered onto the other spore kill it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Are Tervigons Characters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Wow sporemines and biovores need an faq bad. You can't assault in assult phase on turn arrival... I can only imagin this is the results, raw would probably support. Are they placed as unit? Or separate? If unit, are all shots from a brood of biovores one large unit?, therefore facing issues with coherency. Can you run spore mines first turn in? It seems you would place first shot then use that for follow up shots, only placing spore mines after all shots resolved any other method would suck. If could first turn assault you would almost always get back in, you can scatter max 9" if in los and place models so 8" away if you drol 2 more. Spore Mine Clusters, the FA slot unit, can Run but not Assault the turn they come down. Spore Mines placed by Biovore or Harpy attacks can both Run and Assault the turn they are placed. This may not be what they intended, but the rules are very clear on the matter. If a Biovore/Harpy shot misses, you place a cluster of d3 Spore Mines as a single unit. They are placed under the hole from the first blast from the squad- no further shots are resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Are Tervigons Characters? Oops. no, they are not. They also removed the character trait from the trygon prime. So no more hiding in a challenge to make the combat last until end of opponents turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Also means the Tärv can't be Warlord, so Fluger's first list there doesn't work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Also means the Tärv can't be Warlord, so Fluger's first list there doesn't work. Yup. Derp derp derp. Thanks GW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Also means the Tärv can't be Warlord, so Fluger's first list there doesn't work. What the f*cking F*CK. Seriously. Seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think RAI, Tervs can be warlord, but we'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 3 Tyranid Warriors: 90 Cheap Synapse that can either be a deck chair or move up with the horde. I'm not counting on them to do anything but be Synapse. I agree with this. I wonder if small spamming units of warriors are the way to go for synapse, I put a venom cannon on them for 10 pts. 600 pts, 6 scoring units, 6 synapse units, then fill the rest of the list with the fastest meanest threat you can find. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Argh. Edit: This was in regards to the Tervigon not being a Warlord. How stupid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 More I read I agree 2 scoring min warrior broods will help foot slogging and back up synapse. Its just hard because you can make a great shooting army here, but effective range is 18-24". Slow moving and gun ranges of 12" - 18" is not enough. A screen of gaunts with a broods of warriors and venomthrope, means warriors have 3+ cover. That wont last long but will probably get you in range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The competition for the elite slots is really 2 units Venomthropes, and Zoanthropes. With the reduction to BS3 and no synapse hive guard are probably not as useful as a zoanthrope. We got alot stronger in the heavy support, so I am guessing those are going to be maxed out in every list. Then two units or so of warriors to keep your gribblies in line, then season to flavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I still think Lictors have a place in the elites. But, yeah, Zoeys and Venoms are looking better and better for Synapse and Synergy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 So is there any reason to get any of the new models? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 In my couple of games this weekend, the two crones I proxied did work against Fluger's eldar, but against Koyote's marines 1 didnt want to come in from reserve and the other did some good work. The Crone can be explained as a weak flying hell turkey. Vector strike and a S5 AP5 "flamer". With the added bonus of 4 haywire missiles. The exocrine I proxied was negligible in the Eldar game, but did good work in the marine game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Even after the nerf, I think Hive Guard are worthwhile. They've got good range for Nids, and ignoring LoS+Ignores Cover is really nice for flushing out those fragile Scoring Units that like to hide in lower levels of Ruins or other places where even Barrage can't get to them. Plus, there are a number of hard targets that can also pick up good Cover Saves, and having some Ignores Cover of our own that doesn't have to wait until Turn 3 to hit is pretty nice. @Bro G: The Exocrine looks solid, and the Hive Crone has a lot of potential. The other builds for each kit are mediocre to failtastic, but I think they might be worth picking up for those. If you don't have Warriors already, they look like their role as Backfield Synapse/Objective Campers has become more important. I mentioned above that I think Hive Guard are worthwhile, and Tyrant Guard are absolutely essential if you're running a Tyrant on foot. None of them are "must have"s, but I think you can get value out of any of the new kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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