Tau...

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Kelharis said:

Interesting, the rules for drones state that:

"When a unit is set up on the battlefield, any accompanying drones are set up in unit coherency with it. From that point onwards, the Drones are treated as a separate unit."

Pathfinders have Vanguard which reads:

"At the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins, you can move this unit and any accompanying Drones up to 7"."

So order of operations means that drones can never vanguard, since they are no longer part of the unit.  Unless we all decide to define a rule for accompanying to mean "deployed with but no longer part of" ? *grumbles about GW rules again*

I forgot about the vanguard rule. This might work.

So, the "accompanied" term is actually defined. In the unit entry, it states that the unit is 5 pathfinders. Then then it describes the oppontion to have the pathfinders accompanied by drones, but doesn't describe them as being in their unit. At no point are the drones described as being part of the pathfinder's unit. 

The drone support rule doesn't describe them as a unit that divides, it instead refers to the unit and the accompaning drone unit as having to set up in coherency. It clearly states that they are seperate units in all respects after deployment.

Although the vanguard rule references the accompanying drones, it doesn't reference them as being part of the pathfinder unit. I believe the drones can move in the opposite direction as the pathfinders, as they are definitely different units and clearly defined as seperate units after deployment (which is before the vanguard rule takes effect). 

So, can I used the vanguard rule to embark my pathfinders in a transport?

[Kelharis]

7 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I forgot about the vanguard rule. This might work.

So, the "accompanied" term is actually defined. In the unit entry, it states that the unit is 5 pathfinders. Then then it describes the oppontion to have the pathfinders accompanied by drones, but doesn't describe them as being in their unit. At no point are the drones described as being part of the pathfinder's unit. 

The drone support rule doesn't describe them as a unit that divides, it instead refers to the unit and the accompaning drone unit as having to set up in coherency. It clearly states that they are seperate units in all respects after deployment.

Although the vanguard rule references the accompanying drones, it doesn't reference them as being part of the pathfinder unit. I believe the drones can move in the opposite direction as the pathfinders, as they are definitely different units and clearly defined as seperate units after deployment (which is before the vanguard rule takes effect). 

So, can I used the vanguard rule to embark my pathfinders in a transport?

"...end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark..."

I suppose so, unless vanguard move doesn't actually count as a move, but I don't see an FAQ that changes the terminology.

[Kelharis]

Just now, Kelharis said:

"...end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark..."

I suppose so, unless vanguard move doesn't actually count as a move, but I don't see an FAQ that changes the terminology.

This also means you could manta strike a unit of tac drones around a devilfish and embark them on the same turn I suppose.

[Lyraeus]

Just now, Kelharis said:

This also means you could manta strike a unit of tac drones around a devilfish and embark them on the same turn I suppose.

Not really manta strike happens at end of movement 

[Guest]

Just now, Kelharis said:

"...end their move within 3" of a friendly transport, they can embark..."

I suppose so, unless vanguard move doesn't actually count as a move, but I don't see an FAQ that changes the terminology.

I recall something about not being able to pile in on a transport. 

Just now, Kelharis said:

This also means you could manta strike a unit of tac drones around a devilfish and embark them on the same turn I suppose.

No, embarking and disembarking is start of the unit's move. Deep strikes are end of their move. 

 

I'm just thinking that If I can't outright deploy the drones and pathfinders in two different transports, I could at least use the vanguard move to embark each unit in different transports

[Kelharis]

3 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

I recall something about not being able to pile in on a transport. 

No, embarking and disembarking is start of the unit's move. Deep strikes are end of their move. 

 

I'm just thinking that If I can't outright deploy the drones and pathfinders in two different transports, I could at least use the vanguard move to embark each unit in different transports

I think as long as you achieve a "move" action and end it within 3" of the transport, it works.  Manta strike I see is defined as a "set up" action, even though the unit "counts as " having moved, so it doesn't qualify.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Kelharis
a word

[Guest]

Basically, I want to get 15 drones into a devilfish...Recon, 2x attached gun drones, and 12 gun drones embarked from a fast slot.

It's weird that the Devilfish holds an extra guy, but only for a recon drone, and the recon drone only comes with pathfinders, but theirs no note regarding pathfinders in the devilfish entry.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Kelharis said:

I think as long as you achieve a "move" action and end it within 3" of the transport, it works.  Manta strike I see is defined as a "set up" action, even though the unit "counts as " having moved, so it doesn't qualify.

Amusing, I can see your edited reason, but I can't quote it.

Edited December 26, 2018 by Guest
If I don't want to be quoted, I suppose I start putting most of the post into the edited reason...like so.

[Lyraeus]

2 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Basically, I want to get 15 drones into a devilfish...Recon, 2x attached gun drones, and 12 gun drones embarked from a fast slot.

It's weird that the Devilfish holds an extra guy, but only for a recon drone, and the recon drone only comes with pathfinders, but theirs no note regarding pathfinders in the devilfish entry.

You can start anything embarked in a transport. If you need to disembark first then embark you can 

[Kelharis]

2 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Edited 1 minute ago by paxmiles
If I don't want to be quoted, I suppose I start putting most of the post into the edited reason...like so.

........

[Ish]

I’m saying treat them like “markers,” with absolutely no stat profile for them at all. 

[Guest]

Just now, Lyraeus said:

You can start anything embarked in a transport. If you need to disembark first then embark you can 

The question is regarding a devilfish embarked on by a recon drone, but pathfinders it accompanies are not embarked.

[Guest]

Just now, Kelharis said:

........

Hmm...did you use the quote button, or just you just copy and paste?

[Lyraeus]

From the start? No. They are 1 unit until placed on the board for the first time. Then they are separate units. 

 

Orks have this with Deff Dreds and the Speed Freaks vehicles. We can place them in a tellyporta and they are 1 unit for all purposes until they are set up. On the table for the first time. Then they are separate 

[Kelharis]

Just now, Ish said:

I’m saying treat them like “markers,” with absolutely no stat profile for them at all. 

While I would LOVE that for making the army better, it would mean you can't shoot my pulse accelerator drones (or any other attached drones that do cool stuff) unless I say you can.  Right now you have the ability to pick out the special drones any time you like and kill them.

[Kelharis]

1 minute ago, paxmiles said:

Hmm...did you use the quote button, or just you just copy and paste?

Highlight the edit button, and a "quote selection" option appears to click on, Although IIRC you use a playstation for surfing, so maybe not for that?

[Kelharis]

2 minutes ago, Kelharis said:

Highlight the edit button, and a "quote selection" option appears to click on, Although IIRC you use a playstation for surfing, so maybe not for that?

sorry, I meant edited text, not edit button.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Kelharis said:

Highlight the edit button, and a "quote selection" option appears to click on, Although IIRC you use a playstation for surfing, so maybe not for that?

Yeah, not a playstation option. I don't even have spellcheck and lots of the keyboard buttons don't work. But, to be honest, I like the PS4's version of the internet. Much more simple. Reminds me of the internet I had on that old windows 95 computer we had for most of grade school

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

From the start? No. They are 1 unit until placed on the board for the first time. Then they are separate units. 

 

Orks have this with Deff Dreds and the Speed Freaks vehicles. We can place them in a tellyporta and they are 1 unit for all purposes until they are set up. On the table for the first time. Then they are separate 

We could compare the books in person sometime and I can show you what I'm talking about. It's very clear that the drones are their own unit from the start, they just deploy in coherency to the unit they accompany.

Pretty sure the vehicle squadron rules are worded differently, though I don't think I presently own a codex with an example to compare with. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Ish said:

I’m saying treat them like “markers,” with absolutely no stat profile for them at all. 

Think of the grot krew for the mek artillery guns. GW made them into markers and the first question asked was, 'do I really need to include them?'

GW will stop giving them stat profiles when GW decides there's not enough money to be made in selling them. And that's because most people won't $6 each for tokens. 

[Guest]

...Bought a Stormsurge. Ordered the cockpit cover from that site. 

Decided I wanted to keep my money too much to buy the fancy arms, but I might still do some sort of conversion. 

Also acquired some more shades of green for painting my models. My present selection on green was lacking because my other armies only use it for small things like wires and eyes. Now I should have a good base green, a slightly brighter overcoat green, and a much brighter green for doing highlights.

[Ish]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Decided I wanted to keep my money too much to buy the fancy arms, but I might still do some sort of conversion. 

Maybe magnetize the missile launchers, now, and add the arms later?

[Lyraeus]

4 hours ago, Ish said:

Maybe magnetize the missile launchers, now, and add the arms later?

Pin them. You can pull the Missiles off later and only have the pin hole as waste

[Guest]

Yeah, something like that. Plus that bit which I did order won't be arriving until Jan 8-11, so I won't be finishing it anytime soon, since they seem to have very slow shipping times (I think the idea is that they print it only after I order, rather than stocking them).

The other end of it, is that it's like $50 more for the bits I want (arms and such), but I've never bought anything from this company, so I don't know if they'll really send anything or if the quality will be good enough. So starting small.

I do plan to paint sections of it. It's a huge model with lots of detail potential.

[Guest]

Regarding the Stormsurge, ultimately, I feel that the lack of TAU psykers means that I need a few units which reliably deal Mortal wounds. Not all enemies will die to volume fire, especially those with good invulnerable saves, so I need some options there. Stormsurge's destroyer missiles and the Sunshark's pulse bombs are really the only two reliable options. The Rail weapons usually deal mortal wounds on wound rolls of 6s, but it's not something I can rely on because they lack volume fire (rail weapons are usually 1 shot each).

In this respect, I think that every TAU army should have a stormsurge, even at relatively low points.

Stormsurge also includes a pair of airbursting frag launchers, which I want to put on some Crisis suits. And yes, the bits seem to be perfectly designed to fit on the same crisis suit mounds.

Finally, running Dal'yth, so units which are stationary most of the game are favored. Furthermore, units which have a base save of 3+ get better, while units with a base save of 2+ have negligible benefit (so riptides and broadsides are less impressive for Dal'yth).

As for the stormsurge's loadout, I'm undecided which weapons and upgrades. Shield seems obvious, but it's +40pts and so that depends on how much I want to rely on the stormsurge living past the use of their destroyer missiles.