Tau...

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Mek Gunz are like that but they don't get benefits for kulturs so for them it doesn't matter. They can't get on transports either so meh.

You mean they lack the <Kulture> keyword, or you mean that the Kulture doesn't grant special abilities to that unit?

[Ish]

There is a special rule that says a unit consisting solely of Gretchin (e.g., Gretchins, Killa Kans, Mek Guns, etc.) cannot benefit from Clan Kulturs, even though they have the <Clan> Keyword. They're still treated as having the <Klan> keyword for all other purposes, like embarking on Transports or figuring out if your Detachment is Battle-Forged.

[Lyraeus]

35 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

You mean they lack the <Kulture> keyword, or you mean that the Kulture doesn't grant special abilities to that unit?

They don't get the abilities of the Kultur. However as Ish points out they still have it for things requiring that keyword. So transports or things affecting that type of model as long as it specifies it works on grots. 

[Ish]

It'd be like Space Marine Scouts counting as Imperial Fists, but not getting to use the Chapter Tactics ability that let's them ignore cover and do extra damage to buildings*.

* Which is clearly the most powerful Chapter Tactic of them all which is why everyone is too frightened to use Fortifications in competitive play.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

They don't get the abilities of the Kultur. However as Ish points out they still have it for things requiring that keyword. So transports or things affecting that type of model as long as it specifies it works on grots. 

So if you have multiple Kultures, you really should be painting/modeling them so your opponent can tell which kulture they are apart of.

[Guest]

Wow. Tau Gun Drones sure cost a lot. $6 each from GW is the cheapest they come and you have to buy 2. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tau-Drones-2015

And each includes extra pieces to arm more gun drones that it includes bodies or bases.

I'm tempted to make a cast of that Drone body with putty. Shouldn't be hard. I'd rather buy them, but even 3rd party, there's not a whole lot of cheap gun drone options out there. I mean, the body is basically a nickel, with two distinct sides and clear line between them. Should make a really easy 2-piece mold and doesn't need much putty/resin. It really shouldn't expensive or hard to make 100 slightly different ones on the cheap, but nobody is making them like that.

And army-wise, the Drones are really important towards a functioning TAU army.

[InfestedKerrigan]

Well, I mean, it comes with 2 bodies, and 1 set each of Gun drone, Marker Drone, or Shield Drone equipment. So, sure, if you assemble a Marker and a Shield, then you were sent extra "gun drone" parts. I guess.

[Kelharis]

3 hours ago, paxmiles said:

Wow. Tau Gun Drones sure cost a lot. $6 each from GW is the cheapest they come and you have to buy 2. https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Tau-Drones-2015

And each includes extra pieces to arm more gun drones that it includes bodies or bases.

I'm tempted to make a cast of that Drone body with putty. Shouldn't be hard. I'd rather buy them, but even 3rd party, there's not a whole lot of cheap gun drone options out there. I mean, the body is basically a nickel, with two distinct sides and clear line between them. Should make a really easy 2-piece mold and doesn't need much putty/resin. It really shouldn't expensive or hard to make 100 slightly different ones on the cheap, but nobody is making them like that.

And army-wise, the Drones are really important towards a functioning TAU army.

It's one of those things, when you're just starting the army, it feels like you need to cast or 3d print or steal a million of them. Once you've established a sizeable Tau army, you'll start considering using them as objective markers, or conversions because there's no way you'll use all of the ones you have.

[Ish]

It’s been a long time since I bought Tau (specifically, I pre-ordered their big bundle box when they debuted in 3e), but I seem to recall getting two drones with nearly every unit box.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Ish said:

It’s been a long time since I bought Tau (specifically, I pre-ordered their big bundle box when they debuted in 3e), but I seem to recall getting two drones with nearly every unit box.

At least 2 in every box. Pathfinders came with 3 drones, crisis suits came with 2 per suit. I've got 20+ now. I need lots more. That pathfinder unit alone can field 5x drones per 5-man pathfinder squad. Kit includes 10x pathfinders, so potentially 2x squads. 

The current codex just really favors lots of drones. Several reasons, but basically the drones are the most point efficent way to do a lot of things. And all the drones make your army more durable.

12 hours ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

Well, I mean, it comes with 2 bodies, and 1 set each of Gun drone, Marker Drone, or Shield Drone equipment. So, sure, if you assemble a Marker and a Shield, then you were sent extra "gun drone" parts. I guess.

The basic drone sprue does. Most of the units include both regular drone bits and unit specific drone bits. The Fire Warrior set, in example, includes the 3 drones above, plus a "Guardian" Drone bit, so 4x drone weapon options, but only 2 drone bodies.

[Lyraeus]

43 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

At least 2 in every box. Pathfinders came with 3 drones, crisis suits came with 2 per suit. I've got 20+ now. I need lots more. That pathfinder unit alone can field 5x drones per 5-man pathfinder squad. Kit includes 10x pathfinders, so potentially 2x squads. 

The current codex just really favors lots of drones. Several reasons, but basically the drones are the most point efficent way to do a lot of things. And all the drones make your army more durable.

The basic drone sprue does. Most of the units include both regular drone bits and unit specific drone bits. The Fire Warrior set, in example, includes the 3 drones above, plus a "Guardian" Drone bit, so 4x drone weapon options, but only 2 drone bodies.

This is all true but Drones are not the end all be all. With the recent points drops there are many many options. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

This is all true but Drones are not the end all be all. With the recent points drops there are many many options. 

There are certain roles which I think the drones do best. Volume fire, for example, is best for the gun drones. They have 4 shots each at 18" of range. With a very affordable "Drone Controller" the Drone BS is the same as any other unit. They benefit from markerlights in the same way. 

Moving Markerlights is another. Pathfinders suffer the penalty for moving and firing with markers, markerdrones do not. Again, BS is super easy to match with other units.

Shield drones don't do anything on their own, but are excellent defensive units. 10pts each for a 4+/4++ and a 5+ ignore damage.

[Guest]

Okay, TAU question. Regarding Drone Support rule:

If my TAU unit is deployed inside a transport, how is coherency determined for the deployment of the drone unit?

FAQ doesn't really address this for regular transports, but they do address it for Fortifications. Says the drone unit must be placed within 2" of the transport.

So, my real question, can the drone be deployed within a separate transport, provided the transport is within the distance? I think it can.

 

I want to put a pathfinder recon drone in a devilfish that doesn't have any pathfinders in it. The drone must be bought with them, but they are two different units.

[Lyraeus]

10 minutes ago, paxmiles said:

Okay, TAU question. Regarding Drone Support rule:

If my TAU unit is deployed inside a transport, how is coherency determined for the deployment of the drone unit?

FAQ doesn't really address this for regular transports, but they do address it for Fortifications. Says the drone unit must be placed within 2" of the transport.

So, my real question, can the drone be deployed within a separate transport, provided the transport is within the distance? I think it can.

 

I want to put a pathfinder recon drone in a devilfish that doesn't have any pathfinders in it. The drone must be bought with them, but they are two different units.

Fortifications follow Standard transport rules so follow that. 

Transport is transport regardless if it is an airfraft, a fortification, or a tank. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Fortifications follow Standard transport rules so follow that. 

Transport is transport regardless if it is an airfraft, a fortification, or a tank. 

Doesn't answer my question. Maybe you missed it.

Tau drones aren't part of the pathfinder unit. They just deploy in coherency, not unlike some vehicle squadrons.

FAQ notes that tau fortifications can't hold drones, so mentions that deploying within 2" is also okay for the drones.

So if a different transport is within 2"/coherency, can the drones be deployed in the transport?

For example, if the pathfinders are in a tau fortification, can I put the drones within a devilfish that's 2" away?

[Guest]

Here's what I'm thinking about for Week 1 of the Escalation league:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (T'au Empire) [35 PL, 630pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

T'au Empire Sept Choice: Dal'yth Sept

+ HQ +

Commander in XV8 Crisis Battlesuit [8 PL, 117pts]: Drone controller, 2x Missile pod, MV7 Marker Drone, Warlord

Ethereal [2 PL, 45pts]: Honour blade

+ Troops +

Strike Team [3 PL, 59pts]: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 74pts]: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 74pts]: 2x MV7 Marker Drone
. DS8 Tactical Support Turret w/ Missile pod: Missile pod
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Markerlight, Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [4 PL, 48pts]: MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone
. 4x Pathfinder: 4x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight

Tactical Drones [6 PL, 110pts]: 11x MV1 Gun Drone

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [6 PL, 103pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone, Burst cannon, Seeker missile

++ Fortification Network (T'au Empire) [6 PL, 120pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

T'au Empire Sept Choice: Dal'yth Sept

+ Fortification +

Tidewall Gunrig [6 PL, 120pts]: Supremacy railgun

++ Total: [41 PL, 750pts] ++

[Guest]

Ethereal joins the gun drones in the Devilfish. Pathfinders embark in Gunrig, their drone is used by the Strike Squads. That question above isn't related to this list.

I don't currently own the devilfish, but the other models are owned.

I think I might want a shield drone in there somewhere...

[Guest]

As an aside, thinking about modding that already converted Crisis Commander model with 4x fusion guns to look more like Roberto. Give him a knife looking onager gauntlet. Could also just sell him and start fresh with a new one.

Could also ditch the knife and make a King version:

[Kelharis]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Okay, TAU question. Regarding Drone Support rule:

If my TAU unit is deployed inside a transport, how is coherency determined for the deployment of the drone unit?

FAQ doesn't really address this for regular transports, but they do address it for Fortifications. Says the drone unit must be placed within 2" of the transport.

So, my real question, can the drone be deployed within a separate transport, provided the transport is within the distance? I think it can.

 

I want to put a pathfinder recon drone in a devilfish that doesn't have any pathfinders in it. The drone must be bought with them, but they are two different units.

I think the issue here is that you technically have to deploy only one unit (in its entirety) at a time.  So when you deploy your pathfinders in the fortification, the recon drone HAS to deploy at the same time, but can't in your example as you would have to deploy the Devilfish with the drone inside of it.  That's how I read deployment anyway.  I am by no means a rules expert though, so could be persuaded probably.

[Lyraeus]

1 hour ago, paxmiles said:

Doesn't answer my question. Maybe you missed it.

Tau drones aren't part of the pathfinder unit. They just deploy in coherency, not unlike some vehicle squadrons.

FAQ notes that tau fortifications can't hold drones, so mentions that deploying within 2" is also okay for the drones.

So if a different transport is within 2"/coherency, can the drones be deployed in the transport?

For example, if the pathfinders are in a tau fortification, can I put the drones within a devilfish that's 2" away?

Since the drones are not part of the unit they follow standard transport rules when disembarking multiple units. 

They are their own unit, they have no coherency requirements to the original unit they were purchased with

[WestRider]

54 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

Since the drones are not part of the unit they follow standard transport rules when disembarking multiple units. 

They are their own unit, they have no coherency requirements to the original unit they were purchased with

They are only their own Unit after they are Deployed. It's a weird thing 8th does with a lot of what used to be mixed Units.

[Lyraeus]

15 minutes ago, WestRider said:

They are only their own Unit after they are Deployed. It's a weird thing 8th does with a lot of what used to be mixed Units.

So they are "deployed" until the first time they touch the board. So they would get deployed based on all rules and maintain coherency that are required as if setting them up on the board for the first time. After that they are treated as separate units. 

[Kelharis]

Interesting, the rules for drones state that:

"When a unit is set up on the battlefield, any accompanying drones are set up in unit coherency with it. From that point onwards, the Drones are treated as a separate unit."

Pathfinders have Vanguard which reads:

"At the start of the first battle round, but before the first turn begins, you can move this unit and any accompanying Drones up to 7"."

So order of operations means that drones can never vanguard, since they are no longer part of the unit.  Unless we all decide to define a rule for accompanying to mean "deployed with but no longer part of" ? *grumbles about GW rules again*

[Ish]

GW really shot themselves in the foot with mixed units. Ever since Black Templars started mixing Scouts and Marines way back int Third Edition, they’ve never quite gotten it right... It was always convoluted and overly complex in previous editions to figure out how they were combined, now it’s convoluted and overly complex to figure out how they’re separate!

Frankly, I think Tau Drones should be treated the way we used to treat Imperial Guard heavy weapons (back when the two crew and the gun were separate models). You just ignored the gun’s model. Period. End of line. 

If we could just use the drone model to draw LOS from when it shoots, but otherwise ignore the bloody thing. Have it moves when the squad moves and require it to stay in coherency with them... But otherwise ignore it. So many problems solved with so simple a rule.

[WestRider]

23 minutes ago, Ish said:

GW really shot themselves in the foot with mixed units. Ever since Black Templars started mixing Scouts and Marines way back int Third Edition, they’ve never quite gotten it right... It was always convoluted and overly complex in previous editions to figure out how they were combined, now it’s convoluted and overly complex to figure out how they’re separate!

Frankly, I think Tau Drones should be treated the way we used to treat Imperial Guard heavy weapons (back when the two crew and the gun were separate models). You just ignored the gun’s model. Period. End of line. 

If we could just use the drone model to draw LOS from when it shoots, but otherwise ignore the bloody thing. Have it moves when the squad moves and require it to stay in coherency with them... But otherwise ignore it. So many problems solved with so simple a rule.

It doesn't work for everything, but for Tau Drones, their profile is close enough to the basic Tau infantry profile that they could easily just be extra Models. It wouldn't work for the Battlesuits, but for Fire Warriors and Pathfinders, just change the Drones to T3 (and Sv5+ for the Pathfinders), and they'd be no different than a dude with a Special Weapon in a Guard Squad or whatever.