Ish Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 No, because an Aura is a defined game mechanic. Specifically it is defined as a persistent unit ability that will affect certain models within a given range of the unit with it. This combination of Act of Faith and Stratagem is neither a unit ability nor persistent. It may behave like an Aura, but it isn’t actually an Aura. It quacks like a duck when you squeeze it, but it’s just a rubber ducky, not a mallard. 🦆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Ish said: No, because an Aura is a defined game mechanic. Specifically it is defined as a persistent unit ability that will affect certain models within a given range of the unit with it. This combination of Act of Faith and Stratagem is neither a unit ability nor persistent. It may behave like an Aura, but it isn’t actually an Aura. It quacks like a duck when you squeeze it, but it’s just a rubber ducky, not a mallard. 🦆 I like how you inserted the word "persistent", which isn't written anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dusldorf said: I like how you inserted the word "persistent", which isn't written anywhere. It’s written on page two of this FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Ish said: It’s written on page two of this FAQ. Q: Does the Book of St. Lucius increase the range of Stratagems used on the bearer, such as Vessel of the Emperor’s Will? A: No. Aura abilities are considered to be persistent abilities; Vessels of the Emperor’s Will is an instantaneous ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 That is a very valid point. I hadn't even processed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 Guys we already know that the FAQ resolved the issue. This whole discussion started with the question of whether anyone had grounds to be surprised by the FAQ decision. Nowhere prior to the FAQ is there any mention of "persistent". Using the FAQ to prove me wrong is assuming the consequent. I'm not disagreeing with the FAQ, I am saying that I was surprised by the FAQ ruling because prior to it there was room for debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 My mistake then, I must have missed that in the shuffle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, Dusldorf said: Guys we already know that the FAQ resolved the issue. This whole discussion started with the question of whether anyone had grounds to be surprised by the FAQ decision. Nowhere prior to the FAQ is there any mention of "persistent". Using the FAQ to prove me wrong is assuming the consequent. I'm not disagreeing with the FAQ, I am saying that I was surprised by the FAQ ruling because prior to it there was room for debate. I guess that's why I hadn't processed it. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 At least we've established that both some people expected that interpretation and some people did not. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 14, 2019 Report Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Ish said: Because an aura is defined as a unit ability, this isn’t a unit ability, ergo it can’t be an aura. It doesn’t smell like a duck, it doesn’t walk like a duck, and it doesn’t quack like a duck. It does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Finally managed a decent score last night in my LVO practice. Played the 5 Objective mission (Bonus: take the two that you deployed). The enemy was an army of 4 Knights and an Armiger. His Preceptor went into reserve. For the 5th game in a row I went second but seized, surprisingly. I was able to truck up and kill his Warden. Celestine and the Dialogus protected the tanks and i was able to weather the counter attack for the most part. I took out the Valiant and Armiger at great cost (the Flamers on the Valiant killed an unwounded tank AND most of my assault unit, which might have been avoided had I remembered to disembark my darn Canoness and shoot her inferno pistol into his face hole). It was down to like 2 or three wounds when I had to charge. Because I had deployed and moved to cut him off the Preceptor coming from reserve was only able to charge a Mistress of Repentance and the other Knight missed its charge after shooting me up, but that was the last gasp. With 10 meltas closing in, the Sisters Repentia ready to charge, Exorcist preparing to fire and Celestine right there as well, he saw the writing on the wall. I was on top of every objective just about and there was no getting to them any time soon. He conceded. Final score 35-10. The Knight army is one I am built to handle a bit better. Even so, were it not for the protections of Celestine and the Dialogus, I'd have lost a considerable amount more than i did. Even with it he could still put a hurting on me. Going first was absolutely critical in that game so I would be curious how that would have gone had I not... The biggest advantage it gave me was trapping him physically in his zone. Secondary choices are easy against a Titanic force like that, gaining positional dominance made it about killing more and the Shield of Faith played big. Real big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 22 hours ago, pretre said: At least we've established that both some people expected that interpretation and some people did not. 🙂 Isn't that generally the foundation for a need to FAQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, InfestedKerrigan said: Isn't that generally the foundation for a need to FAQ? Yep. I think it was important to FAQ since people had different opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 It worries me, a bit, that every successful Sisters list seems to require Celestine... Nothing wrong with having a good Special Character, mind you, but an army shouldn’t need to use one to be viable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Just now, Ish said: It worries me, a bit, that every successful Sisters list seems to require Celestine... Nothing wrong with having a good Special Character, mind you, but an army shouldn’t need to use one to be viable. That's been the case forever. Difference is that now instead of a cruise missile she keeps literally everything in your army alive longer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dusldorf said: That's been the case forever. Difference is that now instead of a cruise missile she keeps literally everything in your army alive longer. I would like to second this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ish Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I know that’s been the case for a while now, doesn’t mean I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ish said: I know that’s been the case for a while now, doesn’t mean I like it! It's been the case for longer than it hasn't at this point. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 I've never used Celestine, except for trying out the 4++ blob at an event two weeks ago. Finally had a chance to use that statue of a battle sister I converted up as a centerpiece and objective marker. I mean, all she did was stand around anyway... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Frowbakk said: I've never used Celestine, except for trying out the 4++ blob at an event two weeks ago. Finally had a chance to use that statue of a battle sister I converted up as a centerpiece and objective marker. I mean, all she did was stand around anyway... Well it is a bit strange that Celestine will probably not charge forth into enemies until turn 3 in most games in my list (unless they come at me bruh), but on the other hand, every Codex has its peculiarities. She seems very important now. I recall all my lists before 7th Edition not having her in it. She just wasn't that necessary and she looked great on my shelf. But in 7th and 8th, she has taken on renewed importance. That she cannot Deep Strike is annoying but other than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said: That she cannot Deep Strike is annoying but other than that... Celestine does not go to the battle; the battle comes to Celestine. 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusldorf Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 I've played enough games with the new sisters that I felt comfortable sending in feedback on the beta codex. Here's what I wrote: Hi GW, I'm a longtime Sisters player (since 4th ed) and have been having a blast with the new beta codex. I've run them as a standalone army, as well as alongside other Imperium factions like Space Wolves, Astra Militarum, Inquisition, and Deathwatch, and I've used them against a wide variety of opponents and factions. I'm writing to share my thoughts on the new codex: what I think is working well, and what could use improvement. Penitent Engines. These are much improved, and in my standalone Sisters army I run two of them. I like their 7" movement and double activation in the Fight phase. But they still fold too quickly to savvy opponents. I think at their current point cost, they would be worth taking if they had a Shield of Faith save, but without this they are not really worth it. Beacon of the Emperor's Will. This stratagem is very exciting when it works, and I think its priced fairly. Please do not decrease its CP cost. Acts of Faith. I like the new faith system, but I think the powers are a bit too weak considering how difficult they can be to activate without Dialogus & Ebon Chalice bonuses. I suggest keeping everything the same, but changing the rules for the Simulacrum Imperialis so that instead of it giving +1 to faith checks it makes the unit automatically pass faith checks. This will also indirectly increase the appeal of Celestians, which have rarely seen play under any of the Sisters codices. Inferno pistols & hand flamers. The main issue with these weapons is that they clash with the stratagems and deployment/movement options available to Seraphim. The new Burning Descent stratagem helped this somewhat, but deep-striking Seraphim still feels like a bad option. I suggest giving these weapons an additional "Combined fire" profile, allowing players to fire once per pair of pistols in exchange for 6" of additional range. This would make Seraphim more versatile, increase use of deep-strike, make it possible for them to use the Holy Trinity stratagem after deep-striking, and make up for the recent loss of their ability to double move. Retributors. After losing the ability to fire twice via the index Acts of Faith rules, Retributors no longer seem worth taking. In my experience it is a no-brainer to put a single heavy bolter in a few Battle Sisters squads instead of taking any Retributors. I suggest giving them a unique ability that makes any Wound roll of 6+ be resolved with an additional AP of -1. This would increase the appeal of all their weapon options, including grenades and standard Bolters. Thanks for reading! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted January 29, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 I think this is good feedback. I've been a bit overwhelmed this week but want to get mine down. I'm a bit afraid that the good feedback is going to get drowned in the crap though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StygianArcanum Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Dusldorf said: Acts of Faith. I like the new faith system, but I think the powers are a bit too weak considering how difficult they can be to activate without Dialogus & Ebon Chalice bonuses. I think you hit the nail on the head here. The Acts we've seen aren't strong enough to gamble on and not reliable enough to trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 I lack the will to suck up to GW in my letter. It will read: Celestians lack a role worth paying for. Again. STR 3 simply isn't going to allow an extra attack to shine. Return to them their White Dwarf ability to ignore movement penalties when shooting (formerly "relentless") and you might get some people to take them for the multimelta. Allow them to carry 2 multimeltas at 10 strong and they might be seen in a game. Make them troops and you'd have something really cool. Shield of Faith is a must on Penitent Engines. Make exorcist launchers Heavy 4 or D6 when they don't move. Make the tanks have Acts of Faith. The +1 to hit and +3" move would be highly useful to them. Imagine Penetent Engines doing it. It would fix them the rest of the way! Stahp with the auras already and just make an aura an aura. Theres zero value to this over complication. In a game that so obviously embraces buffs, let it be what it is and point it accordingly if you need to. The stratagem for Vessel of the Emperor is too expensive. Rather than drain CP like that, just allow multiple units to use the same Acts of Faith. Simpler by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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