Drak Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 looks good. thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Both Malekiths are 175. No typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Also a side note. If you feel that the comp scores I've come up with are too penalizing, you could always bring a straight Dark Elf list :D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 I don't think they're too penalizing. Like you said, if you bring "the boss" then have fun trying to get the other "toys" in the list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Yes. At 2400 points you wont be able to fit every cool gadget into your army. You will have to pick and choose. We are holding a competitive tournament. But it is not an 'Ard Boyz event. If you catch my drift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Oh no I don't think 175 is too much for Malekith, I just think the -5 flat penalty for units is kinda flipped... it penalizes MSU armies, and what benefits from Eternity Host is actually big infantry blocks. Which in the end, I actually like because I like almost anything that encourages infantry! But, that said I don't like that Hydras and Chariots and Characters (which are great) don't take a hit in Eternity armies, while RnF (which mostly sucks in a DE army anyway by comparison) doesn't take a hit. Anyway, like I said I think your rules satisfy your goals, but it's an interesting discussion for me because I am a nerd :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The 175 is a good calculation for malekith. Like I said, I had 4 units and had an 8. That was only 1,609 points of models. You are going to have one heck of a time getting the other "toys" in the list. I understand your statement about his abilities but I can get the following while only taking a-65 comp; Level 4 death supreme sorceress on a dark pegasus, cloak of twilight, and staff of sorcery. Is she as great as the eternity king? Special ability wise, no. Casting game changing spells, yes. She's flying around with snipe spells rocking a 3 ++. Malekith has no survivability against magic. His 3+/2++ is only good against non-magic attacks. So, yes, I think the -175 was a good call. As a side note, nagash is more game changing because he had the ability to bring more re units/models to the table which give up zero VP. Yes, the Sorceress on Pegasus is only -65 comp. So for only -110 more you get +4WS/+3Str/+2Tough/+7Wounds/+3Init/+9Attack/+1Ld, Thunderstomp, Magical weapon that deals D3+1 Wounds, +2 Wardsave against all non magical attacks, Strength 4 breath weapon, and immune to heroic killing blow and multiple wounds (from both magical and non magical attacks), and all friendly units within 12" get martial prowess which stacks with martial prowess. And having 10 wounds/3+ armor and immune to multiple wounds is hardly no survivability against magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Like I said, she's not nearly as great when you compare the special abilities he has. I am not arguing that his abilities are superb and they do allow him to do a ton of neat things. My only point was that she starts with much better magical offensive spells and I can still pack in a ton of other things into the mix. I wasn't trying to derail the thread with Eternity King discussion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I could be wrong but my intial take is that (IMO) the Malekith character is under-penalized, BUT the per-unit -5 penalty is too much... especially given that Martial Prowess benefits LARGER unit sizes, but a -5 flat per unit penalty penalizes SMALLER unit sizes. So the bonus (to DE units at least) for being Eternity King Host is actually mis-penalized. IMO a better (an almost as simple) EKing unit penalty would be to add a -1 penalty to DE units per 5 models in the unit, and a -2 flat additional penalty to HE units, or something along those lines (that's off the top of my head). It's not just martial prowess, small darts of white lions and swordmasters now get murderous prowess (the -5 on a unit of 10 of those dudes is legit). All models in The Eternity King army also get hatred against ALL elves now. That's pretty significant with the high number of elf armies out there. Think about what that does for wild riders now! They don't have to be in a forest to get those cool abilities. As another example, Silver Helms gain tremendously from Murderous Prowess as do Dragon Princes. There's just too many units in an Eternity King legion that there is no solid way to say which unit get this modifier and this unit gets this modifier because it can always be exploited. At least with the static -5, you always know that you are taking the extra comp hit for the gained rules. It's only for infantry and cavalry. If you don't take Malekith, you can get more units to capitalize on the benefits from the legion-wide rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lustriangod2 Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Sounds good, even though I think Swedish comp sucks. But I have a remedy for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 It's not just martial prowess, small darts of white lions and swordmasters now get murderous prowess (the -5 on a unit of 10 of those dudes is legit). All models in The Eternity King army also get hatred against ALL elves now. That's pretty significant with the high number of elf armies out there. Think about what that does for wild riders now! They don't have to be in a forest to get those cool abilities. As another example, Silver Helms gain tremendously from Murderous Prowess as do Dragon Princes. There's just too many units in an Eternity King legion that there is no solid way to say which unit get this modifier and this unit gets this modifier because it can always be exploited. At least with the static -5, you always know that you are taking the extra comp hit for the gained rules. It's only for infantry and cavalry. If you don't take Malekith, you can get more units to capitalize on the benefits from the legion-wide rules. Hang on a minute, pointing out that SOME units that gain a lot from Murderous Prowess, but not ALL of them, actually reinforces the point I was making! A -5 per unit penalty may be about right for a unit of 10 Swordmasters (for sake of argument), but clearly -5 is not right for 10 Black Guard, who are paying the same -5 for absolutely no improvement. I mean, you can't argue with that: a -5 penalty to a unit which doesn't improve at all is obviously not right, right? So saying -5 is legit for the units that Eternity host really boosts, just emphasizes the need to be a little more granular with the scoring. Of course it won't ever be perfect, that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get closer to penalizing units based on actual gain, as long as it's not overly complex. Also, part of the point of Swedish Comp is encourage the lesser used units, and penalize the obviously broken ones. A flat penalty against unit types which are already weaker (infantry) isn't in keeping with that goal. WE and HE characters got a lot better by getting Murderous, but they have no penalty at all! Again don't mistake me as whining about it, as I'm not attending (due to conflict, or I'd be there!) I just find this kind of thing interesting to discuss and consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Yes, the Sorceress on Pegasus is only -65 comp. So for only -110 more you get +4WS/+3Str/+2Tough/+7Wounds/+3Init/+9Attack/+1Ld, Thunderstomp, Magical weapon that deals D3+1 Wounds, +2 Wardsave against all non magical attacks, Strength 4 breath weapon, and immune to heroic killing blow and multiple wounds (from both magical and non magical attacks), and all friendly units within 12" get martial prowess which stacks with martial prowess. And having 10 wounds/3+ armor and immune to multiple wounds is hardly no survivability against magic. And you didn't even mention his sickest ability: a 20" ethereal move on one unit per turn that can't be dispelled. That's just straight up crane technique: if do right, no can defend :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioscode Posted January 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 For your reading pleasure, Game 1 scenario for the Black Sheep Brawl: http://orderoftheblacksheep.blogspot.com/2015/01/black-sheep-brawl-iv-scenario-1.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 lol looks like my idea of festus empowered in 50 gor is not going to happen... oh well, dwarfs it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 That's an interesting scenario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioscode Posted January 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 Up next, Scenario 2! http://orderoftheblacksheep.blogspot.com/2015/01/black-sheep-brawl-iv-scenario-2.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverBeliever Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 lol looks like my idea of festus empowered in 50 gor is not going to happen... oh well, dwarfs it is! I wouldn't think so. Festus plus 50 gor would only be -55, which isn't any more than an uber character and certainly isn't more than a tooled up Demon Prince. It'd look pretty sweet, too! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Would it be ok for me to use bestigor models for counts as chaos warriors? I have chaos warrior models as well but i am going for a beastmen aesthetic for the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don't Panic Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 whoops didnt read that right. thought it was the other way around. -2 per model instead of -1 per 2 models... do'h fail. ok well after that first one being basically dawn attack(aka death to dwarfs), ill have to think about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Would it be ok for me to use bestigor models for counts as chaos warriors? I have chaos warrior models as well but i am going for a beastmen aesthetic for the army. Unfortunately not ClassicFlava. Due to the fact that Chaos Legions already have both Bestigor models and Warriors model available, and the fact that you have other Beastmen models in your army, we find that this could get quite confusing for people. We try to follow the WYSIWYG, and athough we do like to see conversions we don't see substitutions as quite the same thing. Sorry bud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 No worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ioscode Posted January 5, 2015 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Feast your eyes on Scenario 3! http://orderoftheblacksheep.blogspot.com/2015/01/black-sheep-brawl-iv-scenario-3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 What do loyalty points do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 Feast your eyes on Scenario 3! http://orderoftheblacksheep.blogspot.com/2015/01/black-sheep-brawl-iv-scenario-3.html Very Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted January 5, 2015 Report Share Posted January 5, 2015 from what I've gathered, loyalty points will have a cumulative effect on the later scenarios. they contribute to the storyline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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