pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Okay, ITC Caveats aside, I still stand by what I was seeing. Imperial Armies may take a Warhound as a LOW. Imperial Knights take 3-5 LOW. Potentially, you could take 2 Warhounds and 1 Gallant at 1850, from the way I'm reading the rules. In an event that doesn't have LOW restrictions? Probably. Not a lot of those around though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Okay, ITC Caveats aside, I still stand by what I was seeing. Imperial Armies may take a Warhound as a LOW. Imperial Knights take 3-5 LOW. Potentially, you could take 2 Warhounds and 1 Gallant at 1850, from the way I'm reading the rules. You are really reading the rules wrong. For starters, the FW list of legal LoW options in games of "escalation" is here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf Very notably, the Warhound is not a legal LoW option for the Imperial Knight codex/faction. The ITC FW index lists it in the "Imperials" tab as part of the AOTI faction. Imperial knights are the IK faction. It is my understanding that the IK formations/detachments all require the models within to be of the IK faction. It is my understanding that in non-escalation games, the only legal way to field a Warhound is to take it via an unbound detachment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, it has to belong to the IK faction. And fair enough, the Warhound wouldn't belong to the IK Faction. Which would mean a CAD would be the only way to bring one. Spending 900+ on the Warhound at that point. Less desirable, but still interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, it has to belong to the IK faction. And fair enough, the Warhound wouldn't belong to the IK Faction. Which would mean a CAD would be the only way to bring one. Spending 900+ on the Warhound at that point. Less desirable, but still interesting. Warhound isn't a valid LOW for any imperial armies, unless I misread something. What book is it in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Yeah, it has to belong to the IK faction. And fair enough, the Warhound wouldn't belong to the IK Faction. Which would mean a CAD would be the only way to bring one. Spending 900+ on the Warhound at that point. Less desirable, but still interesting. CAD can't take mixed factions either. Unbound only, as far as I can tell. Might be some FW formations that would allow them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Apoc '13? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Apoc '13? Apoc 13 doesn't have LOW though. FW put out the list that pax posted to let you use those units as LOW, but Warhound wasn't one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Warhound isn't a valid LOW for any imperial armies, unless I misread something. What book is it in? It's a valid LoW in ESCALATION according to the linked pdf from the FW site. Even there, they list the armies it's allowed in and imperial knights are not on the list. EDIT: again, here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 FORCES OF THE IMPERIUM The following vehicles may be chosen as Lords of War if your primary detachment is from Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Adepta Sororitas. They may also be used in the following Imperial Armour army lists: Imperial Guard Armoured Battle Group from Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd edition, Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment from Imperial Armour Volume 5, Tyrant’s Legion from Imperial Armour Volume 9, Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard from Imperial Armour Volume 10, and the Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade from Imperial Armour Volume 12. Reaver Battle Titan WH40K: Apoc Warhound Scout Titan WH40K: Apoc Top of Page 2 This hasn't been updated for Inquisition or Imperial Knights or AdMech, still calls IG not AstraMil. But it's Forces of the Imperium, that's why ITC ruled Warhounds are LoW for FotI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 It's a valid LoW in ESCALATION according to the linked pdf from the FW site. Even there, they list the armies it's allowed in and imperial knights are not on the list. EDIT: again, here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/L/lordsofwar.pdf Aha, found it. FORCES OF THE IMPERIUM The following vehicles may be chosen as Lords of War if your primary detachment is from Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Adepta Sororitas. They may also be used in the following Imperial Armour army lists: Imperial Guard Armoured Battle Group from Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd edition, Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment from Imperial Armour Volume 5, Tyrant’s Legion from Imperial Armour Volume 9, Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard from Imperial Armour Volume 10, and the Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade from Imperial Armour Volume 12. Reaver Battle Titan WH40K: Apoc Warhound Scout Titan WH40K: Apoc Yeah, that means you can take it for IK. IK are a force of the imperium. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Would it count as being from the IK Faction for the purpose of the IK detachment restriction? If it doesn't, then Pax is right in not being able to take it along side an IK force, but you could take it if you take a CAD (or any other 2nd detachment that allows a LOW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Aha, found it. FORCES OF THE IMPERIUM The following vehicles may be chosen as Lords of War if your primary detachment is from Codex: Imperial Guard, Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Blood Angels, Codex: Dark Angels, Codex: Grey Knights, Codex: Space Wolves or Codex: Adepta Sororitas. They may also be used in the following Imperial Armour army lists: Imperial Guard Armoured Battle Group from Imperial Armour Volume 1 2nd edition, Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment from Imperial Armour Volume 5, Tyrant’s Legion from Imperial Armour Volume 9, Space Marine Siege Assault Vanguard from Imperial Armour Volume 10, and the Death Korps of Krieg Assault Brigade from Imperial Armour Volume 12. Reaver Battle Titan WH40K: Apoc Warhound Scout Titan WH40K: Apoc Yeah, that means you can take it for IK. IK are a force of the imperium. So you read this long list of what "forces of the imperium covers" and IK isn't in it, so you concluded that IK are in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Would it count as being from the IK Faction for the purpose of the IK detachment restriction? If it doesn't, then Pax is right in not being able to take it along side an IK force, but you could take it if you take a CAD (or any other 2nd detachment that allows a LOW). Well, IK don't have a LOW slot for non IK, do they? So you would have to take it in another detachment which may be restricted by the event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 So you read this long list of what "forces of the imperium covers" and IK isn't in it, so you concluded that IK are in it? AstraMil aren't in that list. According to your stance, only Space Marines can take Warhounds. Space Marines! [big bad swear word] Ya! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 So you read this long list of what "forces of the imperium covers" and IK isn't in it, so you concluded that IK are in it? The main rulebook pretty much covers this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 AstraMil aren't in that list. According to your stance, only Space Marines can take Warhounds. Space Marines! [big bad swear word] Ya! No, my stance is rules as written, which includes this guy: With the publication of Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, players now have the option of taking Lords of War choices in their armies. The following is a list of Forge World models that should be considered Lords of War choices and may therefore be taken using the guidelines detailed in Warhammer 40,000: Escalation, along with the publication in which the model’s most up to date rules can be found. Players should note that Forge World’s Horus Heresy supplements already contain units listed as Lords of War. These are only for use in games set in the Horus Heresy using the bespoke Battles in the Age of Darkness rules. Horus Heresy players will find guidance on taking additional super-heavy vehicles as Lords of War in The Horus Heresy Book Two – Massacre. Bold is mine. It's at the very top of the PDF. Unless playing escalation, these are not lords of war. Events are welcome to modify it, as groups like the ITC have done. There is still a difference between 7th ed 40k and 7th ed 40k with escalation rules. Mind you, FW really needs to update their PDFs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 You seem to have a very interesting take on things... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 You might want to take a look at the escalation faq. Escalation was mainstreamed when 7th came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 You might want to take a look at the escalation faq. Escalation was mainstreamed when 7th came out. They did update it, a ridiculous level of FAQing, I think. Should have just re-printed it, or included it in the BRB. Surprising GW didn't. Though according to the FAQ, the listed LoWs: Page 35–Force Organisation Chart Please ignore this Force Organisation Chart. Lords of War units can be taken in a Battle-forged army as part of a Combined Arms Detachment instead, as described in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules No real exception for any faction to field LoWs in non CADs. That's what it says, though I really don't think it would be played this way, AstraMil aren't in that list. According to your stance, only Space Marines can take Warhounds. Space Marines! [big bad swear word] Ya! Escalation FAQ bumped IG to AM. Although not direct, it would be a reasonable jump. I will note, the list covers marines, sisters and guard. The marines and sisters are used with their current names, while the guard one is dated, as mentioned. Saying the IK formation allows muliple warhounds is a stretch. It's clearly not intended to work like that. Seems pretty clear that the IK formations are intended to include only Imperial Knights. There's probably some rules conflicts in there, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 In addition, at no point in that FW list does it say the warhounds gain the faction of the army they join. As I read it, they remain in their own faction and are just an exception to the detachment's normal limitations. The IK formations are pretty specific that all models must have the IK faction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 I forgot about the IK LOW only restriction, for sure. But that's why I ask, so people can tell me where I [big bad swear word]ed up. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 15, 2015 Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 Anyway, for normal play, you could still field an IK formation and an unbound army with a warhound or two. Not ITC legal, but legal for "normal" play. In all honesty, I think the warhounds really aren't too broken at all. They are dirt cheap, but I think GW's point reductions in the last few books make have balanced their cost into the normal range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Started priming the Acheron yesterday. Picked up a couple of wood "bases" that are slightly larger than the Plastic Knights base and about 5/8" tall. The Cerastus' don't need the height help, but I guess it will make them more imposing. Also, grabbed some magnets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcat Posted July 21, 2015 Report Share Posted July 21, 2015 Models can not belong to multiple detachments/formations. This is in the main rule book, the necrons get a rule that specifically allows for it. Eldar might as well but the knights don't have it. So does the skitarii Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Do Grey Knights have a formation that consists of just Dreadknights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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