Brother Glacius Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 With the undead, you have to have the unit on the table in order to be able to summon more. And you can only summon new units as opposed to increasing existing units. Also, you could give the Chaos Lord the same ability as the Mounted Chaos Lord, just have it affect Chaos Warriors, Chosen, and Forsaken instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 So reading Nagash.....yeah, you think a Chaos Lord is broke. Nagash gets to cast 8 spells a turn until he suffers some wounds. He gets to add 3 to his casting rolls, so an average of 10. That means he'll get to summon 320 zombies in one turn, on average. Good thing he is only one model and one war scroll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 just wondering… has anyone tried Kings of War? free rules online…can use GW armies as well… just a thought. I liked the GW Fantasy esthetic - but never enjoyed playing the game (tied 3 armies over the last 10 years). AoS looked interesting - but now I am just not interested in it. but I still find the fantasy thing enticing - so was taking a look at Kings of War (saw some post about it - and followed the inter webs to find a bit more info). -d 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 BroG has a thread in the 'All Other Games' forum, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 thanks… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'll be more than happy to give you a run at KoW Torg. Perhaps next Tuesday at WoW and we can run a demo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terell Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 So reading Nagash.....yeah, you think a Chaos Lord is broke. Nagash gets to cast 8 spells a turn until he suffers some wounds. He gets to add 3 to his casting rolls, so an average of 10. That means he'll get to summon 320 zombies in one turn, on average. Good thing he is only one model and one war scroll! Just curious. Is some of the balance in this game suppose to be the ease at which things die? A Treeman has 12 wounds, which under the old system was devastating. Under this system, meh. My 9 man unit of Ironguts took it down in 1 round of combat. Nagash has 16 wounds. I can't imagine killing him would take more than a couple turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvos Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Just curious. Is some of the balance in this game suppose to be the ease at which things die? A Treeman has 12 wounds, which under the old system was devastating. Under this system, meh. My 9 man unit of Ironguts took it down in 1 round of combat. Nagash has 16 wounds. I can't imagine killing him would take more than a couple turns. In AoS nothing is going to be unkillable. Ironguts are by their nature very good in this new system, it was not suprising that the monster fell to a unit of great weapon wielding ogres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terell Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 In AoS nothing is going to be unkillable. Ironguts are by their nature very good in this new system, it was not suprising that the monster fell to a unit of great weapon wielding ogres. Right my point exactly. This leads me to wonder if part of the "fixing" needed for AoS is for us to think of the game a little differently. I do think there are flaws with the game, lack of a sophisticated, movement system is high on my list. However I am curious if part of the issue is trying to make the new like the old. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I'll be more than happy to give you a run at KoW Torg. Perhaps next Tuesday at WoW and we can run a demo. maybe after OFCC - right now I am deep in finishing painting my army - then possibly play testing it lol. But I am looking at Saga (using the BloodRage minis when my game comes someday lol) - as well as KoW down the road. I would love to see a demo… maybe in august? (vacations at the end of July - so no game nights right after OFCC) -d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvos Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Right my point exactly. This leads me to wonder if part of the "fixing" needed for AoS is for us to think of the game a little differently. I do think there are flaws with the game, lack of a sophisticated, movement system is high on my list. However I am curious if part of the issue is trying to make the new like the old. People need to actually play a few games before needing to "fix" something that actually plays very well and is fun. I have had a blast thus far. If people are bringing broken crap to a friendly game then perhaps they aren't the best opponent to engage in? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 People need to play a couple games, or watch a couple games, and see this horrid excuse for a game can't be fixed. Accept that GW doesn't want you as a fan, only your quick dollar. Too many parents in here. You congratulate a toddler for taking a crap. Not a corporation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 This thread: vs 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 This thread: vs That is a very apt comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That is a very apt comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iraf Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Deep stuff right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkieft Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 ...and acutely correct in the AoS case if you wanted a new edition of WFB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Despite the few things that I like about AoS, there are just too many things that are broke. Also, the lack of points makes playing a moot point. Part of the challenge of WFB was designing your army under the constraints and finding those things that worked. It was fun to build different lists for the same point value to get a different play experience. That does not exist in AoS. By the way, last year I played a few games of Candyland with my wife and daughter. I had fun. However, you don't see me playing it now or investing in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The easiest fix is simply a scale for how you win. If you won but lost/brough a lot of models you dont actually win by that much...or even your opponent could win if you suffered too many casualties. Something like both sides divide wounds caused by wounds you started with . Whoever has the bigger number wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 Out of curiousity, how many games of AoS have you played so far, BroG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted July 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 The easiest fix is simply a scale for how you win. If you won but lost/brough a lot of models you dont actually win by that much...or even your opponent could win if you suffered too many casualties. Something like both sides divide wounds caused by wounds you started with . Whoever has the bigger number wins. That only favors elite units. Everything has wounds, so that isn't a fair comparison of ability. Causing wounds..now that matters. A chaos warrior has one wound and a zombie has one wound. But a zombie (in a unit less than 20) only causes a wound 1/36 of the time. That chaos warrior causes a wound 1/3rd of the time. And then that isn't taking into account the ability to save wounds (which includes bravery tests). @Pretre - I have not played any. I have watched a few, and have read the rules and scrolls of several armies. I have also spent hours trying to think of ways to make it more playable. I've put in effort to turn it into something that I would enjoy playing more than once or twice. I don't support it simply because it was released by GW, nor do I disregard it for the same reason. On the merits of its rules, this thing sucks for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 People need to actually play a few games before needing to "fix" something that actually plays very well and is fun. People need to play a couple games, or watch a couple games, and see this horrid excuse for a game can't be fixed. @Pretre - I have not played any. Both sides seem to think you should give it a try. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I don't see what all the twitching about summoning units is all about,,,those summoned models are immediately counted as casualties once they hit the board. Heres the text: "Models added to your army during the game (for example, through summoning, reinforcements, reincarnation and so on) do not count towards the number of models in the army, but must be counted among the casualties an army suffers." So yeah..We both start with 50 models,my opponent summons a unit of 25 skellies turn one,,,he has now suffered 50% casualties.Those Skellies better get to killin!. I realize that rule can have a different interpretation but this seems to me to be the intention,basically you need to kill as many models as you summon to at least have a draw. Further,he could summon over 50 models,thus having taken over 100% casualties and be forced to table his opponent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 That only favors elite units. Everything has wounds, so that isn't a fair comparison of ability. Causing wounds..now that matters. A chaos warrior has one wound and a zombie has one wound. But a zombie (in a unit less than 20) only causes a wound 1/36 of the time. That chaos warrior causes a wound 1/3rd of the time. And then that isn't taking into account the ability to save wounds (which includes bravery tests). Chaos Warriors actually have 2 wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted July 8, 2015 Report Share Posted July 8, 2015 I don't see what all the twitching about summoning units is all about,,,those summoned models are immediately counted as casualties once they hit the board. Heres the text: "Models added to your army during the game (for example, through summoning, reinforcements, reincarnation and so on) do not count towards the number of models in the army, but must be counted among the casualties an army suffers." So yeah..We both start with 50 models,my opponent summons a unit of 25 skellies turn one,,,he has now suffered 50% casualties.Those Skellies better get to killin!. I realize that rule can have a different interpretation but this seems to me to be the intention,basically you need to kill as many models as you summon to at least have a draw. Further,he could summon over 50 models,thus having taken over 100% casualties and be forced to table his opponent. Seems to me that they would mean they count as casualties once killed... guess we'll have to dice off on that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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