WestRider

Just so you know, this question is a huge firestorm over on The Tyranid Hive. It's one of a handful that come up and just destroy a thread once a week or so.

As far as I can tell, the reason it comes up with Gargoyles is that they're the first time it's been possible for multiple Models in the same Unit to make Blind attacks. Like Winterman, I think it best to play it conservatively, and assume one Test per Unit, but that can still get pretty hilarious if you pull off a big Multi-Charge or something.

OK, I'll concede on that point. But still, even when I was going to GTs, way out of my depth, in 3rd, I almost never felt like I was in a matchup where there was no point in playing out the game. In 6th, matchups that uneven crop up all the time (going back over my games from the last few months, I'd put it around half the time it doesn't feel worth playing past Turn 1), even when my opponent and I are trying to keep things low key.

@Aventine: Right, forgot about the ability to spam minor powers. Still, bubble wrap is so much cheaper and more effective now (no consolidating into new Squads) that it would be a totally different ballgame. @Pax: Mech is a different thing. At least with Mech, once you've cracked 'em open, your basic weapons have work to do in the cleanup. Knights completely invalidate, just for one example, every Tactical Marine who's not carrying a Heavy or Special Weapon. They literally will play no role at any point in the game except to hide and try not to die.

Mostly, it comes down to extreme RPS-type stuff. When my Opponent has brought Tau, for example, I've either had the tools to handle it, or I didn't. In either case, it's always been a complete stomp, with the results pretty obvious to both of us from comparing Army Lists. Or look at Knights: An entire Army (being presented as just another army, not something special or odd like Armoured Company) that's completely immune to anything less than S6 unless it's got Rending or Armourbane or something. What's making the DP untargetable? I can't remember or find anything that would do that reliably. Bubble wrap is cheap enough now that you can afford to have a couple of Units charge without being able to do anything about it (especially given those prices for Daemons. Spendy.). The Lascannon are costing 52 Points per Model, compared to 34 for a regular one now, and 9 Oblits is still totally doable, and modern Oblits have Plasma Cannon and Multi-Meltas available, which the ones back then didn't. Seriously, the power curve has gone up that far. That honestly doesn't sound all that different from my usual experience playing against Daemons/Tau anyhow, and those two can Ally.

OK, let me re-phrase: The Seeding Swarm was the only thing I ever actually saw anyone put on the table that was problematic. In 6th, it feels like game-breaking stuff is cropping up even when my regular opponent and I are actively trying to avoid it. And the 3.5 CSM Dex needs to be let lie. I was looking through it a little while ago, and it looks incredibly tame by modern Army standards. I'd happily go up against it with any Dex currently in print.

Yeah, they're definitely going to have to kick up their game in season 2, but I hope they get the chance to, because they've got the potential for something really good here if they can just hit the groove. The finale was probably my favorite of the recent episodes, lots of good Dorian/Kennex banter and some of the cooler futurism they've done.

That'd work nicely as a Salamander Scout, I reckon.

I think one of the big differences is that the overall power level is much higher now than it was in 3rd, and much closer to the point of system-breaking. So it's much easier for the extra variance from a new release to really screw up the game or at least add major complications that make it much harder for someone who's unprepared to deal with it. The only 3rd Ed release that I remember really causing problems was one of the Tyranid ones, I think the Mycetic Spore Army, but it feels like every other release in 6th is shaking up the game to an unprecedented degree.

PM Sent.

Says you can't receive messages. Try clearing out your inbox. I've got a Chimera I can sell you.

Almost Human just wrapped its first season. Not great, and it got a bit rough at times, but there's definitely potential there, and, on the balance, I enjoyed it. Here's hoping they get a second season and can settle in for some longer story arcs.

I call BS. They're not taking advantage of the re-release to jack the price on the bikers ;) More seriously, tho, that does seem like an odd list. A couple of those kits aren't even two years old, and only the Hellbrute is currently not in plastic. While the Chosen (no specific Models outside of DV) and Havocs (still stuck in Finecast) that were rumoured aren't there.

Have you even read the fluff on Hellbrutes? They're not venerated. They're not great heroes. They're a dumping ground for casualties who are beyond patching back together with Bionics, but don't actually manage to die. They hate being in there, everyone else is terrified of them. Don't be misled by the fact that they're built on the same tech, the intent is very different. And I wish the Rules better represented that. The problem with the argument that it "isn't so bad for an elites slot from the CSM book" is that you're setting the bar ridiculously low there. None of them get better than "mediocre". Dreads in general are really fragile these days, and the unpredictability of the CSM ones when damaged makes them even worse. The only real place for them is if you're trying to spam AV12-13, taking them along with maxed out Daemon Engines or Predators for Target Saturation. In a shooty list that's not based on HS Vehicles, Chosen or Noise Marines will be a better fit from Elites.

Yep. I'd rather see them focus on actual Codex releases and FAQs rather than supplements and dataslates all over the place. It's not the overall rate of releases that's bothering me, it's what they're doing with them.

Given GW's general fail on Assault Units in this edition so far, and the fact that it's a Khornate supplement, I kind of doubt it's really going to make Hellbrutes awesome. I think they just wanted to be able to take that 2nd Ed Dreadnought kit off their webstore as much as anything. Pretty sure that was the oldest Model still in production (Special Characters aside). I'm also pretty sure that GW's Dev Team don't actually understand that the Hellbrute sucks.

I'd say they're not even focusing on the casual players anymore so much as the collectors. The people who are shelling out for all the limited edition stuff, and have the cash around to pick up whatever cool new thing comes out, not on the basis of game effectiveness, but more or less just on the basis of "Ooh, shiny!"

Not sure if he came to a deal with anyone, but maybe check this out.

I didn't say nothing. I said "almost nothing". It goes down to pretty much just Eldar/DE Units with Haywire Grenades if the Knight player is making you Charge through Cover. Some of the MCs are good here if you can get a clear Charge, but Dreads are kind of garbage in this situation unless you can really swarm the thing with them, because they're pretty much guaranteed to explode as soon as it swings on them

I drop Melta PCSs out of Vendettas pretty often. As a rule, they don't survive to shoot a second time, and at BS3 (The things I need to drop Melta on from a Vendetta are usually way outside my CCS's Orders Range, so Bring It Down or Fire on My Target ain't happening), their first round of shooting is often not terribly impressive. Dumping another 100 Points into making the Unit more of a threat isn't going to help that. What I've been shifting to more and more is a 35 Point PCS with just a Mortar to remind me to keep it out of LoS and camping an Objective somewhere in my backfield. EDIT to poke at a couple more things: When your main damage dealers are I1, fragility also really matters during the Combat. When you combine that with the likelihood of taking some damage before Charging, whether through Dangerous Terrain, Overwatch, or regular Enemy shooting, the outcome starts to look pretty bad. Lysander: Trying to kill Lysander (or anyone with a Storm Shield who doesn't care about S8 causing Instant Death) with Melta is stupid. That's what either Plasma or good old massed small arms fire are for. Lysander+Squad are expensive enough to be worth shooting a proper Unit at, so dump the actual Platoon's firepower into him. It only takes like 40 Lasgun shots to equal the performance of all that Melta, and with FRFSRF, that's almost trivial.

Being weak against Super-Heavies isn't really a damning indictment of a List. The vast majority of Armies fall in that category. Especially in CC; there's almost nothing in the Game that strikes at I5+ and can do significant damage to AV13. My main suggestion would be to fill in a second Grav Gun on each Bike Squad (unless you're already doubled up, but just don't show it), and maybe "pre-split" one, swapping it out for two Squads of 4+Attack Bike. Maybe take Meltas instead of Grav on those smaller Squads. Combi-Weapons on Sergeants aren't a bad idea, either. Even if your Opponents don't allow Dataslates, you've got room in the FOC to fit your Talons and Raven, so you're good there regardless, they just get a little less efficient that way.

It actually does end up making a bit of a difference in how ICs Tank Wounds, even if the Saves are all the Same. Say I've got Lysander out in front of a bunch of Hammernators, and they take like 24 Lasgun Wounds. If I roll all the Saves, and come up with 4 Unsaved Wounds, I know I only need to LOS one of them to keep Lysander alive. If I'm rolling Saves a couple at a time, and deciding before each one whether to have Lysander take it or pass it on, things can start to feel really sketchy if he takes a couple of Wounds early on, and even if it ends up being the same 4 Unsaved Wounds in the end, I'm likely to pass more of them on to basic Hammernators, because the threat to Lysander can feel greater after that initial bit of clumping. It doesn't change the math at all, but it makes a bit of a psychological difference that tends (in my experience) to nudge a player toward passing more Wounds along to the Squad to preserve their Characters, which feels fitting.

This change means that you can only roll LOS before making Saves, regardless of mixed Armour, because after you've failed, it becomes an Unsaved Wound, which is no longer legit to pass along with LOS. There's also a bit right before that that says to use the "mixed saves" approach if there are any Characters in the Unit at all, even if the Saves are the same.

It's unclear in the book as originally written, but it was Errataed so that you have to LoS before rolling any Saves or similar abilities like FNP.

Yep, they went back to that in 6th. Also applies to FMCs, even when Swooping.