Raindog Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Painting: 1) I need to add some thin washes to the Scibor Dwarf with a pistol and an axe. 2) I started working on some Battle for Skull Pass Thunderers. Three are in the clue. They are fairly easy to paint. I am hoping to finish them by Friday night. Gaming: Miners are Money and blasting caps are worth their cost. In this edition, Miners have a better chance of showing up. The caps let them do something when they arrive. I wiped out a unit of Gonzo's fast cav that was acting as a rear guard. Their spooked his general and sent the sorceress running. The Runesmith and the +1 Strength on the Longbeards turned the 2+ saves on the Cold Ones to a 5+. That is game changing. Vanguarding Runes were fun, but I outdistanced my shooting very quickly. Runes of Slowness might be a better choice, but I still need to try them. The Lord is pants. Meh. He couldn't wound a Great Sword. The runed weapon is out. I am dropping it for a GW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Great game, it was fun. Those miners held longer than I thought. I needed to reform to face your beards. They made a clutch LD tests afer being combo charged and losing steadfast. Great job on their part to keep my flank exposed to your beards. Had I been able to reform, I pretty certain the outcome would have been slightly different. Great win boss! He forgot to mention how he lost his Gyros though: Gyro 1 lost combat to 2 harpies and got chased down. Gyro 2 lost combat to a single dark rider and got chased down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Great game, it was fun. Those miners held longer than I thought. I needed to reform to face your beards. They made a clutch LD tests afer being combo charged and losing steadfast. Great job on their part to keep my flank exposed to your beards. Had I been able to reform, I pretty certain the outcome would have been slightly different. Great win boss! He forgot to mention how he lost his Gyros though: Gyro 1 lost combat to 2 harpies and got chased down. Gyro 2 lost combat to a single dark rider and got chased down. The harpies I could envision, but a dude on a horse taking down a helicopter is pure awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Yup, Two harpies broke the first. One Dark Rider broke the second. I whiffed my attacks with both copters…….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devo Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 Vanguarding Runes were fun, but I outdistanced my shooting very quickly. Runes of Slowness might be a better choice, but I still need to try them. The Lord is pants. Meh. He couldn't wound a Great Sword. The runed weapon is out. I am dropping it for a GW. In our game, you set the flame cannon nearly to the back of the table, then vanguarded your forces forward. You could deploy your cannon a bit farther forward, to keep it relevant. And your lord whiffing against the greatswords -- that was just bad dice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 I knew That was a mistake, but I need to learn how to play Dwarfs again. My brain is have troubling getting around the new army book. If I wanted competitive, I would go two cannons, two flame cannons, two gyros, runes of slowness on Thunderer blocks (with BSB), with miners flanking units and Slayer speed bumps, 2 Runeys, and a Vanguard, Slowness unit of Iron Drakes. I admit it. It is a gun line. Boring -To play and play against. It is a 40 K style list. Meh. I am trying to find fighty fun. Miners, slayers, and Gyros seem to help with controlling movement. I am also being less then patient. I need to wait for my battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 What I like is the new book allows you to play a mixed approach. You can either sit back and whittle the enemy down if they're superior in CC then mop 'em up when they get close. Or if the enemy can't handle the dwarves' attrition style CC grind, you can vanguard multiple blocks in their face, and blast the flanks to hell. My list of fighty and fun things are: -Multiple vanguarding units -2x Rune of Slowness -Miners -Gyros All of these are a lot of fun to play with, really competitive inclusions, and make for a much more interesting game for the opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 This Week's List: 1750. Thoughts? Runey One, GW, Stone, Breaking. 96BsB, GW, Gromril. 12624 Warriors, S, SB, M. 23620 Longbeards , S, SB, M. 28010 Miners, 10010 Miners. 10020 Hammerers, SB, M. 3005 Slayers. 60Gyrocopter. 80Gyrocopter. 80Cannon. Burning. 125Flame Cannon. Forging. 165 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrad Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 So what are your thoughts? How did this list perform (dice excluded). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Last week, I felt I had too few units. Against Devo, I whiffed. The Longbeards and Lord broke and ran and died. One Gyro died to pistoliers. The other did well. The miners were ineffectual. I f was impatient and did not let my flame cannon find range. Against Ninja, the game went better, but the lord was lackluster. I don't control the table. I don't have threat zones. I need to blast my opponent with guns to make them advance to fight. Without shooting, Dwarfs do not have the movement to threaten any one. If, I take too much shooting, I might as well play 40K. To truly be effective, I think I need three war machines: a cannon, an Organ Gun with the Rune of Accuracy, and a Flame Cannon with a Rune of Forging. Each machine handles a weakness of another. The higher cost of war machines in this book means I am sacrificing troops. Dwarf troops are more expensive, so the points cost is dear to be effective and have more than 3 blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Raindog, to be completely honest, I strongly believe that a competitive Dwarf list should have a grudge thrower, flame cannon, and a cannon. I think you will get better results from a grudge thrower over an organ gun in most cases. That thing is great at making large units small in number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I finished four models so far this week. The Scibor model with the pistol and axe and three Battle for Skull Pass Thunderers. I have wine more Thunderer on the table, I might skip, for something different. It is nice getting four models done so far. I might want to paint a few miners or slayers or Hammerers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted April 13, 2014 Report Share Posted April 13, 2014 I agree, I think the Flame cannon, Cannon and Organ gun are the best combo along with two gyros of course. With three template weapons (flame and gyros), I don't think you need a third with the grudge thrower, plus the organ gun is good at cracking armour and threatening Daemon Princes. In addition, I like accuracy over random especially if I'm planning on engaging, more than one time a grudge thrower has scattered to hit my own guys. I'm becoming a bigger fan of large units of slayers, deathblow is fantastic, and although they die in droves they take a lot with them. For my 3,000 point open list I'm playing with a unit of 21 with a giant slayer who has a flaming rune. I also give the unit a rune of slowness so that I get the charge more often. When they use great weapons that +1 strength is great for breaking through armour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 I played Drak's VC tonight. His luck was remarkably bad. He had double bubble Mortis Engines. I popped one with my burning cannon on the second turn. Then Mortis Engine did it's exploding thing and killed the general and sole character. His army crumbled and went away. The double gyros were stars . They blasted away a horde of Ghouls. On another note, I like the scenario. With a few tweaks, it may be an OFCC scenario….. On the painting front, I stated four more Battle for Skull Pass Thunderers. Why? I must be dumb. It is not like I am using Thunderers right now and Quarrellers with a Runesmith seem like the better choice as units go..... I started with the horns on the helms.Then, I went to boots and bags. The metals are all next. As I was going models today, I repaired several missing magnets.. I do not need another list for two more weeks. I have no idea what to try next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Why is quarrelers with RS better RD? For the range? because AP? Book isn't handy but I'm pretty sure AP in BRB is melee only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Quick question RD: can Dwarf characters take weapon runes on Great Weapons? I thought I remember glancing through your book and seeing that they could rune up whatever, but Army Builder doesn't seem to want me to do that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 NtK, Sadly, you cannot. Only a hand weapon can be empowered with runes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Why is quarrelers with RS better RD? For the range? because AP? Book isn't handy but I'm pretty sure AP in BRB is melee only. Quarrellers have the added range. As to the ForgeFire Rule, the only limit is infantry models.. Nothing about combat is mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 14, 2014 Report Share Posted April 14, 2014 Yes, however in the main RB it says AP is limited to melee. If it grants AP its a no go. If its a special modifier on top of other modifications cool beans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Yes, however in the main RB it says AP is limited to melee. If it grants AP its a no go. If its a special modifier on top of other modifications cool beans. So, that doesn't make much sense. Here are 3 examples of range weapons with the AP special rule: 1) Reaper Bolt Thrower 2) Dwarf Handguns 3) Empire Pistols Those are just 3 examples that show range weapons with AP. I'll have to re-read the MRB tonight though. If you had blessed us with a page reference and maybe an blurb from the page we could have a more intelligent conversation about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Pg. 67, it does work with ranged attacks but the weapon must possess the AP modifier. I apologize for the wrongness, although still not 100% on exact wording on the RS rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindog Posted April 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 BRB page 67. "If a model has a weapon with the Armor Piercing rule, only attacks made or shots fires with the weapon are Armour Piercing." Forgefire Rules: Page 36 Dwarf Army Book. "All friendly infantry models in a unit joined by a Runesmith or Runelord gain the Armour Piercing special rule." I do not see your interpretation of the rule, Hero. The crossbow receives the Armour Piercing rule as long as the Runesmith is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 I feel like what herozero is saying is that the model is gaining the armor piercing rule, not the weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeroZero Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Aye. Unit vs weapons. Badly written aye. Until FAQ I don't see it working as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted April 15, 2014 Report Share Posted April 15, 2014 Unless there's text missing from the Runesmith rule, I don't see any room for confusion here. Sorry, but HeroZero is right, Runesmith gives the model AP, and thus, only CC attacks. The entire Armour Piercing rule (their italics, not mine): BRB p.67: Wounds caused in close combat by a model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that has this special rule) inflict a further -1 armor save modifier, in addition to those for Strength. For example, a Strength 4 model with the Armour Piercing special rule would inflict a -2 armor save modifier when striking in close combat, rather than the usual -1. If a model has a weapon with the armor piercing rule, only attacks made or shots fired with the weapon are Armour Piercing. Runesmith rule specifically gives the model Armor Piercing, not any specific weapon, so the "only attacks made or shots fired..." part doesn't apply to that model. So we use the first rule, which specifically applies to models with this rule, and says that only the model's close combat attacks gain armor piercing. Pretty much as crystal clear as it gets since they are perfectly consistent with their terms for once ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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