New 40k edition

[PumpkinHead]

I am dying to learn how the GSC is going fair in this new edition. T3 sucks, t-shirt save sucks, split fire will destroy them, and taking wounds with low LD will murder them... Hoping they get something to be survivable.

[fluger]

50 minutes ago, PumpkinHead said:

I am dying to learn how the GSC is going fair in this new edition. T3 sucks, t-shirt save sucks, split fire will destroy them, and taking wounds with low LD will murder them... Hoping they get something to be survivable.

I imagine quite well.  Remember your genestealers go first on the charge.. 

[fluger]

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

 unless the act of declaring a charge disallows it... 

Won't stop other units from shooting it...

[Threejacks]

3 hours ago, VonVilkee said:

Seemed like charging happens before shooting so engaged models can't shoot not even a problem to consider.

 

This is extrapolated from the pistol discussion where they can shoot even in close...

  I believe what they  are alluding to with Pistols being able to shoot in cc was that if the unit(with the pistols) is in CC ,they can still shoot them in the shooting phase..setting pistols apart from all the other shooting weapons.

  They have revealed the phases most likely in the order they are played in the game,,thus move,shoot,charge,cc,then whatever they are going to call the Battleshock phase.Also I dont think there has been mention of a "Hero" phase as yet,,possibly the "Command phase" or something like that..or that phase wont be needed for 40k.

[Lord Hanaur]

2 hours ago, fluger said:

To be clear, I have hope for the first time in ages, but this is based on nothing other than knowing GW actually got outside input.

The rules are only 12 pages long so I mean...  talk about being able to fix something in a hurry.  Lol.  

[Threejacks]

  With all the crap I had to take as an early AoS fan about how a Goblin can hurt Nagash,I feel I have earned the right to complain about how,in the new 40k a Lasgun can hurt a Landraider.

 

 However,,since im loving the changes coming to 40k,I will forgo my complaints

[Lord Hanaur]

9 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

  With all the crap I had to take as an early AoS fan about how a Goblin can hurt Nagash,I feel I have earned the right to complain about how,in the new 40k a Lasgun can hurt a Landraider.

 

 However,,since im loving the changes coming to 40k,I will forgo my complaints

500-600 lasguns.  Sure.  I guess?

[VonVilkee]

12 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

500-600 lasguns.  Sure.  I guess?

 To kill it by themselves... use a few cannons then maybe finish it off with lasguns... no more completely wasted shots, just statistically wasted!

[Threejacks]

11 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

500-600 lasguns.  Sure.  I guess?

 Thats about on par with how many Gobbos it would take,,well total over several turns I would imagine.I and others explained this to haters many times...

 

[Lord Hanaur]

it would be hilarious to watch someone whose only goal that game was to see if they could take the Land Raider down with Goblins or Lasguns before they die.  It's good to have goals in life.

 

[VonVilkee]

8 hours ago, fluger said:

Hooray!  The dumbest rule change from 2nd to 3rd is gone!  Now each model targets independently!  FINALLY!  

I hope it is guns that target separately not models... I don't want these three guns that way these two identical this way and all the statistical number crunching with it...

[Threejacks]

2 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

I hope it is guns that target separately not models... I don't want these three guns that way these two identical this way and all the statistical number crunching with it...

  Its likely guns,,and actually,if its like it is in AoS,,a unit of say 20 archers with longbows can even split up those bows amongst 20 targets if they wanted to.

  Also you can be sure that the different weapons on vehicles can target different stuff.

 One thing to keep in mind about this "universal split fire" thing...not saying 40k will do this but you can probably count on it,,,you have to choose all the units targets before you start rolling dice,,may seem a simple rule and all but it can end up screwing you if the rolls dont go your way.So target priority is still huge in the game,,if not more than it was before due to the added random factors in weapon damage.

 

[fluger]

30 minutes ago, VonVilkee said:

I hope it is guns that target separately not models... I don't want these three guns that way these two identical this way and all the statistical number crunching with it...

I suspect that will be a function of vehicles and MCs (shooting at multiple targets).

[fluger]

25 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

 Also you can be sure that the different weapons on vehicles can target different stuff.

Yeah, that's how it was in 2nd edition.  Makes Leman Russes with various weapons for various targets more inviting.

[Munkie]

8 hours ago, fluger said:

Yup, and flipped the other way, mid strength attacks should now be more useful against High Toughness targets.  Take the t8 we've been seeing.  S5 to S7 has the same chance against it.  Depending on ultimate values it could lead to a few sweet spot S and T.

I can see why Heavy Bolters were called out as useful now since they have a decent high rate of firepower and we assume at least a -1 to armor.  Vs T4-T9 it wounds the same as S6.  As well, they wound T4 the same as S6 or S7.  I'm really interested to see how this all plays out.  

Also makes the S6 spam of the Eldar less of an issue. Most armies will be able to enter that same strength bracket en mass.

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, Lord Hanaur said:

it would be hilarious to watch someone whose only goal that game was to see if they could take the Land Raider down with Goblins or Lasguns before they die.  It's good to have goals in life.

In BattleTech, there was a fluff thing about an Atlas (biggest thing going at the time) being able to take on an entire Battalion of Stingers (still one of the smallest) and come out on top. I actually played out the scenario once :D

[InfestedKerrigan]

1 minute ago, WestRider said:

BattleTech

The reason I play Knights 

[Threejacks]

5 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

The reason I play Knights 

TSM and Physical attacks FTW!

 

[VonVilkee]

2 hours ago, Threejacks said:

  Its likely guns,,and actually,if its like it is in AoS,,a unit of say 20 archers with longbows can even split up those bows amongst 20 targets if they wanted to.

  Also you can be sure that the different weapons on vehicles can target different stuff.

 One thing to keep in mind about this "universal split fire" thing...not saying 40k will do this but you can probably count on it,,,you have to choose all the units targets before you start rolling dice,,may seem a simple rule and all but it can end up screwing you if the rolls dont go your way.So target priority is still huge in the game,,if not more than it was before due to the added random factors in weapon damage.

 

And this is what I'm afraid of... I know that you can get screwed by dice but you will have the yahoos who go like this... I have 6 bolters here that model should take 4 to kill and I can put these two over there... doing this across an entire force? Dumb AoS can do it by model as there is less shooting. I'm hoping it is this squad has 9 basic weapons and a heavy,  basic have a choice and heavy has a choice. It can be this squad has basics and two different specials and can engage three. That's cool but i don't want this squad is ten strong and can engage ten. Statisticians be tempted then complain when the math "screws" them. 

[fluger]

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

... doing this across an entire force? 

I think threejacks was saying each unit has to choose its targets before rolling and then going to the next unit.

[Threejacks]

1 hour ago, VonVilkee said:

And this is what I'm afraid of... I know that you can get screwed by dice but you will have the yahoos who go like this... I have 6 bolters here that model should take 4 to kill and I can put these two over there... doing this across an entire force? Dumb AoS can do it by model as there is less shooting. I'm hoping it is this squad has 9 basic weapons and a heavy,  basic have a choice and heavy has a choice. It can be this squad has basics and two different specials and can engage three. That's cool but i don't want this squad is ten strong and can engage ten. Statisticians be tempted then complain when the math "screws" them. 

AoS has less shooting??

 

  Umm..my Bonesplitterz unit of 40 Arrer boyz can pump out 240 shots per turn with the battalion ability,,now that of course would be 6 shots from 40 models but still.And thats just 20% of my points in a 2k army.In my example here these guys are my only shooting in this particular build but others have builds with 2 units of 40,,a double Kunning Rukk build.Yeah..thats potentially 480 dice rolls in shooting alone and you can bet there is some splitting going on.Dice rolling apps are your friend for this stuff:)

  A much more common use of split fire in AoS is with the monsters or units that have different shooting weapons..though in cases of my Bonesplitterz I will be needing to split up shots regularly as it is my only shooting,,I use plastic celophane divider strips to place between blocks of models for this purpose.

 

[VonVilkee]

2 hours ago, fluger said:

I think threejacks was saying each unit has to choose its targets before rolling and then going to the next unit.

Nah I get the splitting. Difference is that AoS has fewer units to decide not number of dice. In 40k shooting is much more common across a multitude of units.

 

Even with absurd numbers of dice AoS is only a few choices of splitting up a chunk of dice. In 40k it is tens of chunks in sequence so units get whittled down leaving more difficult choices in the number of guns to throw at a given unit...

[pretre]

Warhammer 40,000 is chock full of mighty heroes and powerful villains; from the humble Astra Millitarum officer to the Greater Daemons of Chaos, these Characters can profoundly affect the way their army’s troops work on the battlefield. For you gamers, using these Characters correctly can be the difference between victory and defeat.

The way Characters interact with the rest of your army changes fundamentally in this new edition.

Previously, Independent Characters would join units, and those units would benefit from the Character’s Leadership and certain special rules, while the unit offered protection from enemy fire. Broadly, this worked pretty well, but there was a tendency in more competitive games to see multiple Characters pooled into a single unit, resulting in an all-conquering unkillable mega-unit with a smorgasbord of special rules, a few psychic powers for good measure, and often, some very un-thematic pairings (we’re looking at you, Dark Angels and Space Wolves, running around in your Ravenwing/Thunderwolf units).

So here’s a big thing – Characters can’t join units anymore. The age of the <add prefix>-star is over.

Instead, you’ll tend to find that a lot of Characters will have an ability that affects nearby units with a certain Keyword within a radius of effect. For example, the mysterious Dark Eldar Character Drazhar lets you add 1 to the hit rolls of all friendly Incubi units that are within 6″ in the Fight phase, while the Kroot Shaper allows nearby Kroot to re-roll wound rolls of 1 and share his superior Leadership.

To counter the fact that these Characters cannot join units and “hide” from enemy fire, there is a rule in the Shooting phase that means you can’t target a Character unless they are the closest enemy model. This represents the difficulty in picking out individuals amidst the maelstrom of battle and applies to all Characters with a Wounds characteristic of 10 or less, including things that previously might not have benefited from any protection. For example, Roboute Guilliman, who has 9 Wounds, can now realistically advance in the centre of a disciplined Space Marines army, directing his troops while remaining relatively safe from incoming weapons fire. Really big heroes, like Magnus the Red, will still need to brave enemy fire, but with, in his case, over a dozen Wounds and a respectable invulnerable save, he holds his own just fine.

The final part of the Character ruleset is Heroic Intervention. This allows Characters near a combat to pile in and attack if the enemy comes close enough, even if they themselves aren’t charged (because your Chaplain’s not just gonna stand there and let your Assault Squad have all the fun now is he?)

These rules, together, mean that you’ll see Characters advancing in the midst of their armies surrounded by groups of units benefiting from their particular expertise – which looks great on the tabletop, reflects the background we all know of the 41st Millennium, and offers some interesting tactical challenges as players try to get the most from their army’s leaders while keeping them alive…

That’s your update for today.

Join us tomorrow when we look at a few more weapon profiles from the upcoming new edition.

[CaptainA]

"So here’s a big thing – Characters can’t join units anymore. The age of the <add prefix>-star is over."

 

Golf Clap.

[pretre]

5 minutes ago, CaptainA said:

"So here’s a big thing – Characters can’t join units anymore. The age of the <add prefix>-star is over."

 

Golf Clap.

Well... I don't know about that. It depends on the powers in their bubbles.

If Azrael still gives a 6" 4++ bubble and you put him next to 60 wolves, and you can still cast invisibility on them and the TWC lord can Heroic over when they charge/get charged, you get effectively the same thing without the Star appellation.